The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop Starting trouble when warm 235

The 58 235 engine purrs nice when running but I have trouble starting it when warm. I need to pump about 8-10 times gas and pull the choke and it might work. Sometimes it just starts right up without all that. I recently replaced the gas filter thinking it was that. When cold I have little problem starting it. Any suggestions?

magnolia,

Boy are you unlucky, it's usually the cold start that's the tough one. Have you ever done the mega-pump routine, maybe even with choke, and looked behind the truck to see a huge black plume coming from the tailpipe.

Even if the fuel pump were on the fritz, there is enough fuel in the bowl to run the truck for some time. If you do the multi-pump thing and the truck does start, but doesn't cough and
exhibit signs of flooded starting, then it is obvious it was shy on fuel.

There is something funky in Vancouver..this 2 plus 2 doesn't equal 4. If you can look down the carburetor the next time this happens and verify that the accelerator pump is working you could narrow your search.

You should not be able to start the truck using your method if there is ANY fuel in the carburetor. If there is no fuel in the carburetor, it must have leaked out..internally or externally. This isn't likely.

I think I would be inspecting Mr. Ignition with a microscope. This is a '58 so it is probably 12 volts (?). Does the starter spin the rig nicely when it is warm...

You said when you do this routine, "it might work"..what does the truck do if it doesn't work?


Stuart

I had this with a 292 on a homemade forklift. Retard the spark when it dont want to start hot, dunno why it works but it does for me

sounds like a coil to me.....after warmed up touch coil see if its real hot...

Could be the solinoid on the starter. There should be a wire form the solinoid that shoots a straight 12 volts to the coil for hot starts. The hot wire from the switch to the coil will be cut back to about 6 volts when the truck is hot enought to run it but makes for hard starting hot. Try hooking a jumper wire form the batery to the plus side of the coil on a hot start and see if that helps. Doing this bypasses the switch so be careful.

Sounds like a coil gone bad like Darin367 says. See if the coil overheats and check all your ignition wires for good tight corrosian free connections.

If you decide the ignition wiring and coil are correct then go back to fuel supply and check the float in the carb to make sure it is not stuck or punctured.

Hobert

ttodd,

I can't quite follow what you are saying. The contacts in the solenoid provide the coil with battery voltage on START. On RUN, the key switch feeds battery voltage through a ballast resistor to the coil, OR directly to a coil with internal resistor.

Wouldn't the coil always have battery voltage at START? The typical ballast resistor failure is " starts on start, but won't run on run". :confused:

Stuart

yer right Stoo -not a wiring or resistor problem - on a 12v setup, the coil will be getting just over 9v thru the resistor, full 12v when cranking

if it's not a weak battery problem [cranks well any time] then it's timing, as Moll sez - try tweaking the timing slightly and see what happens

could also be the carb is flooding it sometimes - floats do stick and these carbs are notorious leakers

what does "When cold I have little problem starting it" mean? hafta pump the pedal lots and give it full choke to start cold? = leaky carb and near empty float bowl - although most all Chevy's like a few pumps to fire right up, when warm it shouldn't take more than 1 pump, and if the timing is right it'll fire immediately

Bill

Thanks everyone for the suggestions and guidance. The engine pretty-much starts fine on cold-start. It's only when I've driven for a while that I have trouble. It sounds starved. I'll check the coil and see if it's that then go to the carb. When I'm having troubles starting on warm when I do get it running I get light-smoke, not black and smell of gas. It floods it, I know and I know this isn't right. I was thinking the gas pump was going but...

Thanks again!

my roomates fqrd (inline 6) had a similar problem and it turned out to be the coil. actually it was poor connection at the coil. i took the wires off, cleaned the connections, wirebrushed the mounts on the coil, reassembled and it worked fine. i think that you must have some sort of spark / electric issue. good luck.

automarc

Look on your solinoid 12 volt key start or foot start and their will be a extra treminal with a wire going back to the coil. When when you hit the starter this sends a straight 12 volts to the coil bypassing the resistor. The contacts in the solinoid will become damaged and not make contact.

ttodd,


Thanks, now I get it. Good point.


Stuart

ok. I cleaned a connection but this got me thinking. I replaced the positive line from the battery and forgot the order of the connections on the top of the starter. Is there an order for those connections or does it matter. The positive line from the battery was frayed. I wonder if the line from the solinoid is the same.

if you mean the 2 or 3 wires that go to the same terminal, doesn't matter, just stack'em up in a way that works neatly so nothing shorts to other stuff and isn't in a position to be abused

what's important is that you have the right wire on the little side terminal, as that's the one that bypasses the resistor and goes to the coil - should be 'violet' if you've still got original wires

Bill

[img]http://members.shaw.ca/magnolia/images/coil.jpg[/img]
Ok, here's a pic. If you see anything wrong, let me know. The violet wire seems to be connected correctly according to the manual. Is this the one I should remove and cleanup? I'm completely new at this. Thanks for the help!

magnolia,

Boy, a picture is worth a whole bunch of words. I thought a '58 had a key starter!! I see one wire to the key side of the coil...and I think I can see where it attaches to a small side post on the switch. This would give the coil 12 volts in "stomp" mode.

I wonder where the coil gets its power in "run".

Is that oil from the valve cover leaking onto the coil, or has the coil started leaking? Don't forget that the coil might have a part in the hard hot start condition.


If you don't have a ballast resistor mounted somewhere, you need a coil that indicates "no external resistor needed"..hard to see on an old dirty coil!

Stuart

ok. I've been driving with this problem for a few months. I don't quite understand what the coil does or whats inside but, yes, it does look like its leaking.

I'm going to Seattle tomorrow and was wondering if anyone knows where I can buy a new one in Seattle and roughly what they go for. Is it hard to replace?