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I'm building a hot rod trailer puller based on a '55 1st GMC 250 (1-ton). Cadillac 500 power, TH400, GM 14-bolt rear. '72 Chevy C20 IFS up front for disk brakes and power steering. 265/70-16 tires.

I plan to use the tilt-tele column from a Cadillac, power leather buckets from a Honda, 35 gallon fuel tank from a K3500.

I've seen some other modified 1-tons. There is a '50 Chevy with a 350 and automatic and the same IFS I have, that lives a couple miles from me.

Maybe 75 miles away is a another with a Cummins and the same IFS.

Is anyone else here building a modified 1-ton? If so what are you doing and what do you hope to accomplish?

technically mine is a 3\4 ton but I'm using a one ton bed. putting it on a 1973 3\4 ton Suburban frame and running gears. goal is for it to appear stock but run good for a daily driver. pics in my photobucket.

My 1 ton is has been out of service for a few years now, the axles are under my 48 2 ton project.

When I get back to the 1 ton I plan to have disc front and rear. Still looking for an 8 lug disc brake I-beam single wheel axle probably from a step van, assuming there actually is such a thing.
Rear will probably be a 14 bot from a cab and chassis with a disc conversion kit and single wheels. This is about the right width and has cheap and faster gear choices.
Wheels will be 19.5" with 8R19.5 tires.
Engine may be a 4BT Cummins, or a 3-53T Detroit, whatever engine It'll be a diesel for sure.
Likely a 5 speed overdrive, NV4500 or a Spicer 3053 with 0.79 OD.

Should make a good local everyday truck, won't be set up for long trips or heavy hauling, but should do OK for a 1 ton and normal use.
The 2 ton will handle towing and road trips.

But first I have to finish the 2 ton,
Grigg

Grigg how do you define 'heavy hauling'?

I'm thinking mine will pull 10,000 though with the CLD requirement I'll never push it quite that far.

I think I'd loosely define 'heavy' as requiring the CDL but more specifically as 10,000+ of trailer and cargo.

I'm thinking heavy is close to the max weight on the door tag, so a 1 ton pickup that weighs about 4,400 lb leaves room for about 4,400 lb in the bed. With the 235 this is about all you want, and with the 4BT Cummins or 3-53T Detroit I think that much weight will be plenty. Then a trailer weight that gives the same feel would be plenty as well.

For bigger stuff I figure my 2 ton which has replacement axles rated for about 14,000 lb combined, with a truck weight of guessing 7,000-8,000 lb should haul the difference in the bed and have the power and gears for it. The frame/truck was rated 16,000 lb before I started, the frame should hold up, and a well designed goose neck hitch will help too.
As far as towing, any normal size tag along trailer should be fine, and a medium size goose neck trailer with it's load is my goal. Speculating I can handle about 15,000 lb total for a loaded goose neck trailer, may find out more is OK, or less is better??
The deciding factor will be how does it handle the load, stopping mostly, but don't want to be to slow on the highway either.

Grigg

Hey I've got HEADERS! does that count? and DUAL CARBS!.

Seriously though, the hours you guys put into you trucks amaze me.

All that grinding and welding. I don't know how you can stay focused.

Christopher its working on the trucks that keeps me sane. Between computer screens and conference rooms my job creates a lot of need to spend time in the shop!

Grigg If I understand you are calling any Combined GVW exceeding the GVWR of the truck as heavy.

Are you concerned that your 1-ton as conceived will not be up to heavier loads, or just planning that the 2-ton will be the right truck for anything 'heavy'.

I ask both out of curiosity and wondering if you see something about the 1-ton that I should be concerned about, since my plan includes pulling what you appear to consider a heavy load.

Steve, I don't have a firm answer on what "heavy" is, more of a feel, but the GVW tag is probably a good and safe starting point. You've probably had a truck overloaded, and know what I'm taking about.

The reasons why I may limit the use of the one ton is mostly power, it should be fine around town, but no extra power, just right, and reasonably econimacal. You should have plenty with yours. That and I don't want to build it really heavy, just normal 1 ton stuff, similar in size and strength to the original stuff, which was good for 8,800 lb loaded, some thought went into that before the truck was new.

Then perhaps the biggest reason I don't have big plans for the 1 ton is the 2 ton will be much better at hauling stuff, and will probably end up as my primary truck. 2 ton sounds big, but in reality it's no longer or wider than a modern long bed crew cab single wheel pickup, just built with stronger stuff.

Don't think I see anything you don't. Only concern would be the frame but not sure why. A well made crossmember at the back of the engine and a good trailer hitch that straddles the rear most spring hangers may be a good idea.

Overall I don't have a good answer for you... I'm building mine because I think it's right for me, I wouldn't go about it like you are, but that doesn't mean yours won't work for you, just different needs and approaches.

Grigg

Modified 1-ton, mmmmmmmmmm lets see....

48 Chevy 1 ton school bus based on a 1ton panel..
It's sitting on a 1990 stretched S10 frame.
Has a 1979 Cadillac 425/400 combo in it.
Drive shaft is a shortened 2piece from a 3/4ton 1987 Suburban.
Stock 1948 pedal assembly is modified so a 1987 3/4ton Suburban brake booster & MC will bolt to it.
1994 Buick Park Ave FWD (cable)steering column w/a late 80's Camaro Steering wheel.
2001 S10 Blazer front spindle assemblies w/dual piston calipers.
1990 S10 Blazer 4x4 rearend & springs.

YEPPPPP it's modified..

All I need a radiator and gas tank and it's ready to roll in all its splender of school bus orange & rust.....joe

Yes Zoo its modified. What is your objective? How do you intend to use Large Marge when she is finished?

Mr Lang: same question. How do you use/plan to use yours?

Grigg, my frame is the same as what was used under a 4100 with a 14,000 GVW. Its dimentions are 7 x 2-3/4 x 7/32.

Your frame, rated to 16,000, is 8-7/8 x 2-7/8 x 1/4.

There is no question your 2-ton is made of stouter stuff. Since I have a couple of 2-tons and even a 2-1/2 ton GMC, I thought about starting with heavier stuff.

But as I researched this I concluded that every pound of truck is a pound I can't haul or pull and the trick is to get the balance right. You'll be hauling more weight empty than I will, but as you say, will be able to haul/pull bigger loads. By limiting my trailer to under 10,000 I think I'm okay with the 1-ton frame.

Regarding crossmembers... Yesterday I removed the bellhousing crossmember from a 1-ton frame I've been cutting up to use for brackets. This crossmember is designed with eight rivets, four through the bottom of the frame, and four through the sides of the frame.

Three of the four tabs on the crossmember where it is riveted to the frame sides had broken off from the crossmember. They were rusty enough it had to have happened some time ago. I was never planning to use this crossmember, but it sure gave me pause to consider how I'm going to ensure my 500 Cadillac doesn't break my transmission crossmember. I pulled a 216 out of the frame with the broken crossmember.

So yes, a stout crossmember is part of my plan. Current thinking is adapting the transmission crossmember from a big block 3/4-ton pickup. I have that in my scrap pile and it looks adequate.

There is a local guy with a 350 Chevy/TH400 in his '51 Chevy 1-ton dump that has a hot rod tubular transmission crossmember in his. Everytime I look at that I cringe.

Whle we seem to make different decisions on every project I find your ideas instructive and appreaicate your input.

What is my objective?? Hell just to get it done enough to make it safe & road worthy would be fine w/me at the moment. As far as what my intentions are when she's done, I'm going to drive the tires off of it. But it will also be set up to pull a 16-20ft trailer if need be, just never know when the need may arrive.
Everything I have ever built was built to drive on an everyday bases if need be and be truly functional in every sense. Heck even my 65 VW Notchback had a trailer hitch on it to pull a small trailer if I had to & it did see trailer action several times while I owned it...Joe

Good luck getting it finished and on the road Joe! I know you've been working on this one longer than I have worked on any of mine.

I mentioned above a broken crossmember. I've just now posted some pictures of it and some description in the Engine and Driveline forum. I also realized I'd understated the number of rivets, its held on with 12, not eight.

Now that you mention it I see/remember your point, the 4100 frame is all but the same as a 3800, but with a 5,200 lb higher capacity. Let's assume the frame is well suited to the 4100, and way overkill for the pickup, you should be fine.
When I started this I wanted a 137" wheelbase and big fenders, so my choices were 4100 or 6100. Decided on the 6100 because the stronger frame sounded like a good idea with the heavy diesel and 10 speed transmission, even though the 2 ton frame weighs more, and an overall light weight truck is a major consideration.
Ended up with a 6400 and actually prefer the extra 2' of bed now that I have it.

The original crossmember I removed from my 6400 had a few cracked ears too.
Apparently the original ones were none to strong, obviously something even more substantial is in order.

I'm sure you've investigated the U shaped crossmember from a medium duty truck Like I used, what are your thoughts on that type and your build?

Grigg

I've never had oppotunity to study a 4100 frame but the specs suggest the only real difference is the bumper brackets. A major compoment of weight ratings appears to be brakes.

Look the the differnce between a HO50 and a HO72. The load rating really comes down to 12 inch versus 14 inch brakes. The rear axle on a 3800 versus a 4100 is a whole different class with far more differences, but the brakes are an important part of the higher rating.

I studied your u-shaped crossmember when you first posted it, and then looked at one in a wrecking yard when the opporunity presented itself.

For my build it doesn't really make sense. My engine transmission combination does not use a mount in that area and in fact the crossmember interferes with getting the motor low enough in the frame.

I've removed that crossmember from my frame. It was not broken on that one and I sat it aside in case I ever need one.

As I began this build I debated between IFS and straight axle, and it turned out to be that crossmember that finally settled the issue. You need the crossmember between the spring mounts on a straight axle truck. You don't need it on an IFS truck unless you are mounting engine/trans there.

The IFS donor is a '72 Chevy C20. It did not have any crossmembers or boxing between the IFS and the transmission crossmember. Since the frames are similar in design between the crossmembers and I'm using similar power train I believe I'm okay with this approach. (The C20 was a 402 with TH400.)

I have thought through a couple of approaches to creating k- or x-members through this area, and once I'm putting the trans crossmember in place I'll make a decision on that.

Sounds like a plan, I agree that the crossmember is less important without leaf springs, keep forgetting you won't have any up front...
But even so it is a long way from the front "axle" back to the crossmember at the back of the cab, some sort of crossmember in there may be a good idea?

Grigg

I agree. The IFS crossmember ends up under the original axle centerline, with the trailing bolts actually about six inches behind the centerline. That shortens the distance some.

I need a transmission crossmember at the rear of the TH 400 and that ends up about 18 inches ahead of the K-member at the back of the cab. If my wife were not close to serving dinner I'd walk out there and measure the actual span, but its not nearly the entire distance between the front corssmember and the one at the rear of the cab.

And I picture some braces running forward from the transmission crossmember to the frame just where the bellhousing crossmember was removed.

Related, but not the same: I also plan to brace the IFS from the center of the crossmember to the frame just behind the bumper brackets. I'm bulding the brackets that mount the IFS this week and that was one thought I had to make it all stronger.

I've contemplated doing a similar thing on the back of the IFS perhaps hitting the frame in the same location where I removed the crossmember. I'll wait to decide about that until I see what room I have left for exhaust and other things.

I think I've described this before, but this is a dedicated thread for this. I like.

65 chevy one ton, 27-87 IFS with disks, dana 70 dual 3.73:1 drum rear, nv4500, dump flat bed, 04 dodge 60/40 seats, Modern gauges, A/C, probably a 02 dodge radio/cd, saddle tank(s), now the power plant question. I have a 98 LS1 engine but I'm 99% sure that I'll go 6BT 12v Cummins. I've been driving an 02 dodge 2500 for 8 years and just can't get over 21-22 mpg and the power and its stock!

This will be a daily driver and basically my new truck, seeing as how America doesn't have any car companies any more. I'll haul some stock (16' stock trailer), a 22' Streamline travel trailer or a sailboat. The Dodge will be retired to grunt farm work.

I have what will eventually be a 1959 1 Ton 4x4 Dually powered by a Duramax Diesel. I have the engine, Dana 60 front and Dana 70 rear axles (4.10) as well as a NP 205 Transfer Case. Have yet to decide on either a Alison or 4L80E transmission.

My intentions are to find a matching year Airstream trailer that I can fix up and haul around to local shows and cruises, as well as use on a regular basis during our short summers up here in the Great White North!

For those interested, there are pics in the Gallery or here: http://community.webshots.com/user/Lane9999

Lane

I have a 3800 that I am trying to figure out what to do with the suspension.... as bad as it sounds, I just want to get it going as a decent truck..... I would love IFS, but really am not tied to it as I think leaf springs front and rear would just be easier...

I would love some direction!!!!

Well Verge what do you really want from the truck when it is done?

I think there is no question staying with leaf springs front and rear is easier than an IFS swap unless there are reasons the leaf approach won't work for you.

I know exactly why I decided to swap instead of stay with the leaf sprung straight axle and feel my reasons make sense. But unless you are attemping something similar to my project it may be the wrong choice for you.

Think through how you will use the truck when it is done and what you will consider acceptable performance is each of those uses.

As just a brief example I want to pull a trailer with up to 10,000 pounds across Wyoming at the speed limit (75 mph--120 kph!) and feel like I can easily pass someone else if the mood strikes me.

Just that much clarifies some of the build requirements for my truck. You may never want to pull a trailer or haul any load with yours and if that's the case your build will be completely different than mine. The better you understand and can articulate your desired outcomes the more likely you are to achive them, and the more help the people here will be.

You are completely right!

I am building a daily driver first off..... and I would like the truck to be as safe at highway speeds as possible. I still would like to be able to be used as a truck where I will not be scared to go down a fire road if needed, though I will not be swapping in a 4x4 running gear so this is a minor part of the project!

Much of this will probably be cost and driveability. I still haven't decided fully on an engine as I would LOVE to go with a cost effective diesel, but haven't found one that makes sense from a cost standpoint when I compare it with a 350 that I can rebuild into a gas miser....

One of the biggest questions on my mind is what I can fit in the 1-ton frame... i have been searching and dreaming for.... about 14 years now. I really do just need to make it happen. I don't need incredible performance... I am selling my sports car to finally do this truck and I think I will be buying a motorcycle to quell the speed junkie in me =)

I just want an all around truck.... one that is isn't scary on the highway corners (especially I suppose with the high centre of gravity!)

I wanted to see what has worked for other people with the 1-tons.

Safe at highway speeds can be achived with new bushings and other wear parts on the stock suspension, and of course making sure the brakes are in great shape.

The guy down the street has a TBI 350 and a TH 400 in his. His mileage will probably be better than mine with a Cadillac 500 and TH 400, but still not spectacular.

I've seen a Cummins in a 1-ton but I don't know that it fit all that well. The truck over in Roy has a 6-cylinder Cummins. No idea what that cost and I'm just not a Diesel guy so I didn't ask any questions.

I don't think the stock suspension would be all that scary at speed even in corners, because it is so stiff. Its when you take leafs out to ease the ride that you loose roll stiffness.

Lots of things to think about...

Your ideas for how you want to use your 1 ton sound very similar to mine, review what I have planned and think Cummins 4BT:

Don't think you have to worry about corners with the 1 ton. When mine was on the road I could take familiar corners faster that I would have guessed, never had the inside wheels come off the ground and rarely slid sideways unless there was loose gravel... the stiff one ton suspension handles well, and like a truck.

Lots of info on diesel engine swaps of all types, particularly the 4 cylinder Cummins at www.4btswaps.com

Grigg

Grigg you are scaring me. Last time I was in a 1-ton truck sliding sideways I landed in the gravel and my truck and both the car that hit me (and started the action) and the car I hit were all totaled.

I was not a happy camper.

Sorry, I guess I should edit that to
...I could take familiar corners faster that I would have guessed, never had the...
Is that any less scary?

Grigg

LOL! Yeah that isn't quite as unnerving. One of my expectations is that my finished truck will handle well enough to be aggressive in corners but that's a relative thing.

I own a Subaru Outback and a Volkswagon Jetta Sport Wagon. Both are very nice handling cars, but both are scary if I forget I'm driving one of them instead of my Corvette and push then into corners a little too fast.

None of my trucks encourage that kind of confusion and I'm sure this one won't either. With 137 inch wheelbase and a fairly high center of gravity I expect to be very stable going straight down the road and want it to be extremely predictable in corners.

I'm playing with the caster setting right now, and as I do so I'm biasing toward high speed stability over parking lot turning ease. I do that aware that manuverabilty will be limited by wheelbase and presuming my power steering will at least overcome the resistance to turning the front wheels will have.

That same resistance to turning will make cornering at any speed require a little more effort. But again power steering...

I have a very fat sway bar on my IFS but none on the rear. Once I have it on the road I intend to experiment with rear sway bars to see if I can improve cornering. But I say that having not yet bolted the IFS in, and my motor is still mounted in the donor car, so I'm probably a year or two from driving it.

With as much forethought, research, interthought, and planning you put into your truck build, OldSub, and being a corvette fan, I'm supprised that you haven't figured a way to put 4 wheel independent suspension under that thing. Then you'd be able to drive across Arkansas (the straightest road in Arkansas is I-30) at those speeds Dave

This one is intended to pull a heavy trailer. I don't think an IRS is the right setup for that application and I know for certain the rear under the 'vette isn't up to the job.

I've considered building a truck with 'vette suspension but haven't pursued it very far. I had a line on a junk C4 for $500 recently and considered buying it for the suspenion. Instead I paid $25 for the seats because mine needed the adjusters. I've also watched trashed Jags on craigslist thinking that suspension stuff might be a good choice and unless you buy a kit, an easier swap into an old truck than Corvette stuff.

It may happen, but the concept on that one won't be pulling my trailer at speed, it will be leading the Hot Rod Power Tour in comfort.

Yeah I agree. Haven't seen too many SemiTT with IRS. Somewhere (4bt.com?) is a corvette with either a 4bt or 6bt Cummins. I didn't pay enough attention to the suspension to comment but one wonders. I think an old 30s 1/2 ton on a corvette suspension would fit the hot rod genre well. probably been done.

Those kinds of projects have some appeal for me, but don't be holding your breath. When I want to drive a Corvette I drive one. I drove it to and from work today. It has the best air conditioner of anything I own.

I have toyed with the idea of abandoning the as yet un-started restoration project on my 1-ton dually, and instead dropping that body on a 4x4 S-10 frame. But in doing so it would no longer be a 1-ton, and though some might argue it still fits based on its origin, I don't think that proejct would belong in this area.