The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop 261 for a daily driver

Finally making some progress on the procurement of a '58 261 out of a cherry '58 2 ton truck. The engine's history is that it was rebuilt 10 years ago and has little mileage. Would like the experienced to share ....

Assessment Protocol

Rebuilding Protocol

"848 Head" Worth The Effort?


Installation will be in a full time daily driver/only vehicle that presently has a '56 235, 44k miles running strong, 848 head, Fentons with "x-Pipe", one H-W 2 bbl, '62 3sp+od, '57 3.90 rear.

By full time daily driver I mean what it says, have been to western Mass. upstate NY, south to NC, west to Tenn. So looking for future 261 to have good manners, will never be raced. I do have a dual set-up seen here that I would like to add.

Opinions and experiences valued here. Thanks, Cosmo.

We have a combination very similar to the one you are working on. You can see pictures of it in the Gallery. It is the 1950 3100 owned by Ron and Kim Plender - we call him Walter. The 261 has been in the truck for about 13 years and we have put at least 85 to 90 K miles on him with lots of everyday use as well as some long haul road trips. Walter has, however, participated in some 1/8 mile drag racing as well. We have a mild cam in the engine, twin H/W two barrel carbs, Fenton cast iron headers and electronic ignition. The rear end is out of a 78 full size Blazer that now has a 4.11 posi unit and a Tremec 5 speed in front of it. We also added a remote, spin on oil filter set up that makes changing the oil much simpler. Walter is my wifes favorite vehicle to drive. She had a very nice '98 Camaro that we sold because it never got driven.

Cosmo,

As you most likely already know, the 58-62 261s came from the factory with full-pressure oil filter system. The original cartridges are still available, or you could convert to a remote spin-on system.

The 261 that I am still using is a 1960 engine that I rebuilt in Charlottesville in 1972. I ran it for years with stock intake/exhaust/carb/electronics. It was reliable and was noticeably more powerful than the original 235.

If you want the simplest, least expensive upgrades, just slap on your 235's intake/exhaust parts and go with that and your existing drive train. If/when your carbs ever start acting up, convert to Langdon's Carter-Webers (and his C-W linkage).

The 261 cam is already a modified lift cam (the same used in mid-54to55 Corvette 235s). You can get this idle down to below 450 rpm - a higher-lift cam would most likely roughen your idle.

You could use your 848 head (drilled to match the 261's extra coolant passages), or you could wait to do this when/if the engine needs a rebuild.

Tim

nothing to add except I have met Cosmo in person, what a neat guy and he drives his little red truck ever where..

pix of his truck when I met him

another pix of his great red truck

good luck my friend
Fred

Ron, great street manners and track worthy; bonus... wife loves Walter!! Are you running 2- H-W's?

Tim, I've been reading everything I can get my hands on over the years and have a "261 Section" in my Favorites. Do you recommend the C-W's over the H-W's for a 261? I thought the cfm's were different. I have C-W's on that modified Edelbrock, seen here. Buffalo Steve's work. I spent a good 8 hours or so smoothing out the aluminum welds.

Re: Upgrades, yes Fentons, I'm running one H-W presently, but plan to mount that Edelbrock intake and a '69 all-synchro 3sp+od I'm rebuilding this spring/summer. My present '62 3sp+od has the non-synchro 1st gear, but runs perfectly these last ten years. Tim have you ever seen or do you know the color code for the 261 yellow engine I've heard about? I bet Bob Adler would know or even has one in his field! I'm betting the color is so ugly I'll just have to paint my 261 with it!!

Joker, was great meeting you man! Perhaps we'll cross paths again someday soon (I hope).

The hardest challenge is having only one vehicle so that when I am ready for the 261 it will have to plug right in and be up and running in a few days which will necessitate having all my ducks in a row.

If y'all can point me in any other direction (I'm an Inliner and I'm hip to the Webrodder's site) I'd be obidged. Thank you, Cosmo.

Cosmo,

Sounds like a great project. That is exactly what I want to do; I have a 1959 261 ready for a mild rebuild to go into an AD pickup (that I do not have yet), as soon as I get my current project (a 261 in a '32 Ford roadster) street legal.

I assume that your 261 section has the Frank McGurk 261 article from May 1955. I followed that article back in the late fifties when I built my first 261 (a 1954 block) for a 1951 Chevy coupe. I was also a one-vehicle guy then. I put the engine together, started on the switch at about 9 pm on a Saturday night and had it running by daylight (with the help of a couple of good buddies and lots of White Castles), including a 6 to 12 volt conversion. This car and engine was my daily driver for six years and about 80,000 miles. I used an 848 head milled 0.060", the stock 261 cam, a Corvette six exhaust manifold, and for the intake, either a McGurk dual with BXOV-2s or a Harper with three Stromberg 97s. The McGurk setup was as drivable as a stock one-barrel, but noticeably more powerful above 2000 rpm. Even my mother enjoyed driving the car. The Harper was not much fun when it was cold in the winter. Tom Langon has convinced me that the C/W or H/W carburetors are the way to go now, but I am looking for another McGurk manifold and BXOV-2s, as I sold the cGurk back in 1966. I did hold on to the Harper and Corvette exhaust.

What will you be using for a water pump? As we know, the 1958 has the high, long-shaft water pump. I assume that you will be able to use whatever is on the 1956 235. Is your front plate set up for the front crossmember engine mount?

Hoyt

The advice I was given by Langdon's is: The Carter Webers are brand new carbs and easily match up in a pair or more. The Holley Webers are remanufactured and subject to the quality control of the remanufacturer. He said it is not impossible that they could have slight throttle shaft wear and still passed quality control and less likely to get two or more carbs that matched perfectly in regards to jetting ect. In my opinion, the Carter Webers look to be a very nice carb for the money he is asking. Look up the same carb from local auro parts store and you will find a much higher price. I got a pair of the Carters but do not have them installed yet but Tim said his had much better manners than the dual Rochesters he replaced. Here is a link to Langdon's info that came with carbs and linkage. http://pages.suddenlink.net/churchill_toolboards/Langdons%20Carter%20Webers.pdf

Cosmo,

I have never used the Holley-Webers, and I put Carter Webers on my 261 last summer. I like the Carter-Webers. The electric chokes work fine in my 6v system.

Follow Hoyt's advice about relocating an earlier water pump on your later block (matching the pulley groove with your harmonic balancer and alternator/generator) Wherever you buy the water-pump relocation plate, ask for installation instructions (I received no instructions with the one I got off eBay - Jim Carter (OLTrucks) kindly sent me instructions). Also, no matter what the instructions say, put a gasket on both sides of the relocation plate.

Bob Adler does/did have an original yellow 261. If you want the PPG code for the Alpine Green 261 color, bowtietim has posted it.

Tim

"Alpine Green" is Detroit Diesel green. I just picked up a case of spray can engine paint at NAPA a few weeks ago, it goes on easy and sticks very well. Even wet sanded the valve cover and oil pan, can't tell it came from a spray can..

Grigg

Cosmo!!!

Hey buddy, when the time comes to do the swap, give me a buzz. I would love to help drop that baby in.

As we discussed, swapping engines will bring great smiles to your face. Let me know if you need any help, I would love to take the quick drive to your place to help speed up the process.

back in the old days before every one thought you needed a 4x4 desail to tow anything. i towed race cars allover the mid east with a 62 chey 3/4 ton with 261 and 4 speed truck trans. the 261 had fentons an dual card manifold with 2 corvair carbs. it was stone reliable never refused to pull a load and never broke down.

Hoyt, yes I've got that article in my "261 Favorites" and need to re-read it a couple times before the build. Presently I have the short shaft water pump on my '56 235 that has the front plate set up for the front crossmember engine mount. Yes, I'll be going with this set up... Edelbrock w/ 2 C-W's.

Thanks, Greg and Tim, re: C-W's, yes Tim, will be using the relocation plate, thanks for the advice.

Grigg, I'm going to hold out for that elusive yellow or paint it red, can't seem to go with the green, although I am a fan of the stock period look.

Sweet my man, will call when the time comes, I fear it's going to be a long strange trip though.. aquiring another 848 head, having it machined, rebuilding another transmission for the install, etc. I will call you for the help when it happens, the more the merrier.

bob308, that's what I'm talking about, use the power.


Here's some info from Bob Adler......
Cosmo,

Good to hear from you.

Yes yellow was a 261 color, but I do not have any info on it. When I put a 261 in a 54-55 Advance Design, I painted it olive green, it's correct 54-55 color. Everyone will know it's not a 54 261 with the big oil filter, which started in 1958. I've been driving my 54 panel with 261 for almost 10 years. Make sure you use a late 235 head with 848 casting number. This bumps up the compression over 9:1. Don't pop the clutch cause that will overstrain your U joint. And make sure you pour gear lube in the pipe plug in tranny to give U joint lube. This historically has been a weak point.

Best,
Bob
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