The Stovebolt Site Forums The Parking Lot Big Bolts CDL questions

I've considered getting a CDL in case I ever want to get a big big bolt or tow a trailer with a GVW of greater than 3,000 lbs behind my GMC 4000 that has a GVW of 23,000. A couple questions though:

1. Once you pass the exam and driving test, what is required for renewals? Restesting or just regular renewals like a regular license? Is it more expensive?

2. Would it affect insurance rates for non-CDL vehicles I would own?

Thanks,

Scott

PS: An update on "Emily". The tanker bed will probably be off next week and I am ordering the steel from Kampco to build a factory style 12 foot by 8 foot stakebed with oak decking.

for one you have to have a medical card. but from state to state requirements vary. here in ga you just renew it like a regular license.

I keep my CDL and medical card current, even though I hven't really needed it for over 15 years. I figure it might be necessary to quit teaching school and get a real job again one of these days. Some states have a much stricter blood alcohol content level threshold for CDL holders, something that doesn't really concern me, but it might be a consideration for some people.

And, they crack down MUCH harder for traffic violations like speeding, and seatbelt.... Which allows your insurance company to stick it to yah harder.....

CDL renewals are not difficult here in North Carolina, they work about the same as the renewals for the operators' license. The hardest part is to get the original CDL with the endorsements that you want. DOT medicals are generally good for two years, only one year or less if there are medical problems such as high blood, eyesight deficiency, etc. DMV checks for current medicals more often than they use to. As for price for renewal mine was $110 (as I recall) for 5 years, but I have several endorsements for a CDL class 'A'. Get all the endorsements that you will need to begin with.
AS stated by the guys above CDL holders are held to much higher standards than the motoring public, so be careful.

Good luck on your CDL, its well worth the effort!!

JAMES

Passing my CDL 20 years ago was simple because I got my first commercial Texas drivers license in 1959 and I had been around trucks all that time. I have never had to take another written or driving test. I pay $80 each for medical exams for myself as well as for my drivers. Before you drive any commercial vehicle (26001 lbs gross weight) you have to take a drug test and then be in a drug test. In Texas, a person with an operators license can take defensive driving or get deferred judication to wipe out a ticket. Federal law does now allow states to do anything to "mask" a ticket on the driving record of a CDL holder. Also, drunk for a CDL holder is .04 whether you are in a truck or a car. Drunk for an operators license is .08. Also, a conviction for drunk is an automatic suspension for a year. A second conviction is suspension forever anywhere in the US. Also, many officers hate trucks and will give a CDL holder a ticket in a situation where an operator would have gotten a warning. I recently experienced that. I had my cruise set on 67 for the highway where the speed limit was 70. At the outskirts of a small town the limit dropped to 60 and a city cop stopped me. He was writing a warning and suddenly realized I had a CDL. He tore up the warning and wrote a citation that will show up as "speeding" on my record for 3 years. Having a CDL has no bearing on your personal vehicle insurance. Most insurance companies scrutinize speeding tickets much less than stop signs, red lights and following too close. These are the violations that cause liability claims in an accident. Speeding in not considered to be that high a risk factor in causing at fault accidents.

Although I am now retired I still keep my CDL up to date. As for renewing it here in Ohio that is no problem,a little more pricey than a regular drivers license but thats it,no test unless you happen to have a HazMat endorsement,which means a test at each renewal plus a security check which cost about $100. I dropped my HazMat endorsement about five years ago,because I did not want to pay $100. for the security check.If I ever go back on the road and the HazMat is required,then whoever I drive for will pay the fee.

Scott -- If you're just hauling your own stuff, why go through the hassle of a CDL? Sounds like all you might need is a Non-Commercial Class B.

Believe me it is not hard I am only 19 and I got mine last month. I now drive anything as long as I do not leave Louisiana. Down here is just like a regular license except you have to be checked by a doctor every 2 years and carry a medical card.
Thanks
Brad

No CDL is required unless GVW is greater than 26000 on combination vehicles/straight trucks.

In Maine they send you a renewal card every five years, then you just go to a BMV office and give them thirty-five bucks...that's it, no test, no medical. Haz-mat has other regs. though.

In VA they want you to have a CDL if you have air brakes... say your car had air brakes, irregardless of weight you'd need a CDL to drive it.
Otherwise it's 26,000 lb before needing a CDL in VA.

Grigg

I do not have to carry a medical card unless I am driving for a living.You can maintain your CDL without a medical exam.CDL stands for Commercial Drivers License.That means that you are qualified to drive vehicles commercially.As long as you are just driving your own vehicles and are not being paid for it ,the CDL is just like a regular drivers license.AS for the medical,three years ago I went back driving over the road,and the first thing my employer did was to give me a road test,then over to the doctor for a medical exam.I have been off the road for two years now and my CDL is still active,in fact I have to renew it this year.But no medical exam,unless I decide to sign on with another trucking co.

I do not have to carry a medical card unless I am driving for a living.You can maintain your CDL without a medical exam.CDL stands for Commercial Drivers License.That means that you are qualified to drive vehicles commercially.As long as you are just driving your own vehicles and are not being paid for it ,the CDL is just like a regular drivers license.AS for the medical,three years ago I went back driving over the road,and the first thing my employer did was to give me a road test,then over to the doctor for a medical exam.I have been off the road for two years now and my CDL is still active,in fact I have to renew it this year.But no medical exam,unless I decide to sign on with another trucking co.

Ok guys, here is how the CDL breaks down:

Class B: Vehicle over 26,000 lbs GVW, No combination (Means no trailers behind it)

Class A: Vehicle over 26,000 lbs GVW, Combination Weight (meaning truck and trailer) over 26,000lbs, or any trailer over 10,000lbs GVW. That's right, a tandem axle bumper-pull flatbed with 2 5000lb axles that's plated for 10,000lbs GVW is illegal to tow (even behind your pickup) if you don't have a Class A.

Air Brake: an endorsement for various license classes (A, B, S, etc) for driving a vehicle with air brakes..... Some states (such as Michigan) allow anybody with a drivers license to drive an air brake equipped vehicle if it is for private use and doesn't require a CDL otherwise to operate.... (i.e, for weight purposes, etc.)

This isn't correct.

You can tow a trailer up to 10k GVWR with a class B. (over 10k if the combined GVWR is under 26k.)

A class A is not reqired until the combined GVWR exceeds 26k. Even then it is only required IF the GVWR of the trailer is over 10k.

There is also no such thing as an air brake endorsement. That is why a CDL is not required solely because a truck has air brakes.

I would suggest a person read the Federal Motor Carrier regulations for themselves.

I would agree with Kenneth. Intrastate vs. Interstate makes a difference also. Don

Firstly, thanks (?) for digging up two long-dead threads on air brakes for your first two posts to Stovebolt, ever.

There is no air brake endoresement, but there is an air brake restriction if you fail or do not take that test. Somehow, it's assumed that if you have a CDL, you passed the air brake test. The other skills (haz-mat, combinations, etc) are the other way around (use endorsements). I always thought that was weird. But you are correct in that the presence of air brakes does not make a vehicle a CMV.

Still, I think it is or could be all moot: CDL requirements are not applicible to "vehicles operated by persons only for personal use, such as recreational vehicles and rental moving vans." (Virginia Commercial Driver's Manual July 2010). My state law also excludes "any vehicle when used by an individual solely for his own personal purposes, such as personal recreational activities" from CMV/CDL requirements. The feds also include in their definition of a CMV "used in commerce to transport passengers or property". CDL/CMV requirements are generally uniform thoughout the states (Unlike IFTA).

Does this mean you won't get hassled by the DOT man? Sure, it can happen. That's life.

cfesting,

I'm curious to what the Air Brake Restriction would be, in your research, for regular truck use?

What I have found in my research is:

I had heard of a CDL needed for Air Brakes also, for regular truck use. I had found a Chevy Truck with a GVW under 26,001 but with Air Brakes and wanted to verify it. When the licenses switched over from Chauffers to CDL's, I never made the change-over. Anyway, I called the Virginia DMV and the lady on the other end said "I don't care what kind of Brakes the truck has, if it's under 26,001 you don't need a CDL"!!

Now, I wanted a second opinion, just to be positive, so I contacted the Virginia DMV back again, but this time by E-mail. I got a rather long in-depth reply, but it verified what the lady also told me. What I liked about the second time was that I now had something to copy in case I ever needed it. The only thing "new" about it now is that was a few years back. I still should have that reply on file if anyone would like to read it.

Also want to add that I have heard about state variations many times. What might be true in one state, very well could be different in another.

Bill

Grigg's statement is for the most part how it works in NY. This is why I looked for a GMC 350 COE (no air brakes - I do not think the hydrovac air-assist counts).


Vehicles Requiring Commercial Driver’s Licenses

Drivers must hold CDLs if they operate in interstate, intrastate, or foreign commerce and drive a vehicle:

* With a Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) or Gross Vehicle Weight (GVW) of at least 26,001 pounds, whichever is greater, or a lesser GVWR or GVW the Secretary of Transportation prescribes by regulation, but not less than a GVWR of 10,001 pounds; or
* Designed to transport at least 16 passengers including the driver; or
* Transporting a quantity of hazardous materials requiring placarding.

Air brake restrictions

If an applicant fails the air brake section of the knowledge test, or performs the skills test in a vehicle not equipped with air brakes, his/her CDL, if issued, will indicate that the license holder may not operate any CMV equipped with air brakes. Note: For the purposes of the skills test and the license restriction, air brakes include any braking system that operates fully or partially on the air brake principle.

https://www.nysdot.gov/divisions/operating/osss/truck/driver

up north air brakes are a separate situation from commercial use or size/weight categories, vehicles with air brakes require a license emdorsement for air brakes, commercial or not, and here if any size non-commercial [like motor home] that can be an addition to the regular B.C. drivers license, which AFAIK is accepted in every state as well ..... every jurisdiction has their own rules, always check your local laws

Bill

No biggie! All the Air Brake Restriction says is "I won't drive a vehicle with Air Brakes". Let's say you are driving a little E350 for some company that carries haz-mat like an oxygen home health care outfit. You need a CDL for haz-mat no matter what. So, you get a class C CDL with an H endorsement and an "X" (forgot what the letter really is) letter that is also listed with the endorsements - while H says "yes" to Haz mat (and P says "yes" for passenger bus, etc) the X says "no" to air brakes.




I dunno, tclederman, read that all again. That last sentence makes me think that air assist IS an air brake vehicle in the eyes of the law. If a GMC 350 COE is under 26K# and was a true hydrolic (and you aren't calling it a recreational vehicle) then you would not need a CDL.

Most of this all became "federalized" sometime in the late 80s (?) when the chauffer license went away.

I apologize if I misread or misunderstood a question - must admit I am multitasking.

hydrovac isn't "air assist" and doesn't "operate fully or partially on the air brake principle", there are no air chambers or slack adjusters involved, all hydraulic fluid

Bill

Bill,

That is the also the interpretation of my town's DMV satellite office.

and you do not need a medical card if you do not leave the state you are lc in and you do not need a cdl to have air breaks on a vehical YOU need an Air Break Endorsment NOT A CDL. Also The BAL is the same for you in a personal vehical .008 is legally drunk but in a Comm Vehical you better not have anything on your breath at all Per Dot Cop

That could prove difficult seeing how there is no such thing.

I have the air brake endorsement to go along with my CDL license here in KS.

Each category is considered an endoresment.

passenger,Hazmat,doubles,triples,tank vehicle.


Tim

What's funny about all this is that the CDL was supposed to make things simple. ??

I like the old days. If a vehicle had Air Brakes, when you needed to stop, you pushed on the pedal. I started using Air Brakes on the road when I was 11 years old. I thought they were the greatest thing, as I still do today.

Bill

Ok guys this should answer any questions that anyone here has without any misinformation.
This will tell you what can not be different from state to state as these are the laws that each state must abide by.

Not exactly, you just don't have a restriction.

These CDL and air brake discussions always seem to go round and round in circles....

How about just leave it that you should contact your local department of motor vehicles and the state trooper or DOT enforcement folks to see what they say, how do the people who enforce them read the laws?

If you get pulled over and have some trouble then an excuse like this may not go over so well...

"Well officer, My friends on this Internet forum thing, some of them no less than 3,000 miles away, well you see.. they all seemed to say I'd be just fine driving my truck with the license I have...."

Grigg

I dunno, links to FHWA and such sound like useful information to me.

"Well, officer, that's not what the law back home is" doesn't really fly if you are in a different state...

How about if you are tired of the thread...

Mulliganman,you are correct on my situation.Everything I listed but the air brakes is considered an endorsement.

Tim

In Alaska, you are required to have a CDL to drive anything over 26,000 lbs. You need extra endorsements for air brake, combinations (truck/trailer) or anything carrying HazMat. Medical card and random drug testing for CDL Background check for HazMat, and you are required to report any ticket to your employer within 24 hours. I worked at Anchorage Int. Airport, the job required I have Class A CDL with endorsements including HazMat which required a background check, random drug testing, and post accident drug testing, To work on the Airport Operating Area, background check, random drug testing, post accident drug testing,and airport I.D. card. The company I worked for had the same requirements, plus the company owned an off site tank farm at the harbor in Anchorage which required, you guessed it, backgound check, random drug testing, post accident testing, a Mar Sec Id card, and none of the entities would accept anybody elses' background checks!!

Good luck!

You must be really bored this morning.

I'm not telling anyone that their research is wrong. All of the above may all be 100% valid without conflicting with my experience in Ontario, Canada.
Examples of differences include:
1. Here a class B applies to school buses which are considered just a notch below an A (which permits you to drive pretty much anything) but above public transit or inter-city buses (class C) and straight trucks over 11000kg (class D, but no trailers over 4600 kg which require an A class either with or without R restriction). Classes are clearly not consistent between jurisdictions, other areas may use numbers or letter for classes, endorsements and restrictions and the way they are grouped also seems to vary.
2. Here an airbrake endorsement (code Z) is also required for air boosted hydraulic brakes such as on the military M135 or M211 series. I get a headache trying to understand just the rules here, without considering other areas. As an example of a possible (but possibly a bit unusual) combination, I currently hold a class BM license with Z endorsement and X restriction (glasses required). An example of what I don't understand is whether I can keep my current BM with Z (which includes airbrake trailers) but add an A(R) and then tow an airbrake trailer. My Z endorsement should permit it but the R on an A normally wouldn't. The point of the A(R) is to be able to tow a trailer of over 4600 kg (usually electric brake) behind a pickup (by itself, the A(R) would prohibit air brakes and multiple trailers). Either I'm dumb or the rules are complex... I will need to find a knowledgeable commercial enforcement or licensing source to clarify this, probably smarter if I were to study the Highway Traffic Act and/or the Regulations related to it..... and then discuss.
3. Here I'm required to pass medicals to keep a D or higher license but the license itself is considered proof of the medical (no separate card here) - the frequency of exams depends on my age.
There's nothing to stop you from having a G (cars and light trucks) license with Z endorsement, I used to have this for my M135CDN toy/restoration.

A link to a document I found summarizing Canadian drivers' licenses is at https://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/sites/fmcsa.dot.gov/files/docs/Canadian%20Driver%27s%20Licence%20Reference%20Guide%20Revised%202015.pdf

There is definitely supposed to be some sort of reciprocity - if I'm in another jurisdiction operating in a way contrary to their rules but in a way that would be legal in my home jurisdiction I should be accepted - but I don't really want to test this. I try to operate in a "reasonable" way at all times to avoid drawing attention in the first place.

I hope I haven't said anything incorrect here, or added to anyone's confusion.

Please do your own research to determine the rules both locally and wider area in your place of driving (I don't expect enforcement will listen if you say "I was told..." or "I heard").