The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop Removing engine questions

I'm at the point in my restoration where the engine needs to come out. Since this is my first project I have never done anything like this before. I read some old threads and got some information, but most of them left out little details that only come from experience.

I would really like to know any tips / tricks you have learned like what should I use (towstraps,chain, etc). I saw I-Bolts mentioned but don't see how that would be able to take all the weight of the engine. Would I simply un-bolt the transmission from the bellhousing and have the engine / bellhousing come out as a unit? The repair manual is a good start, but seems to be geared towards someone with experience .

The engine is a seized 216 with a SM420 behind it.

Thanks

i've always used eyebolts to replace front and rear intake bolts then a chain between them from there. i also always pull the transmission and motor together to save time and not to deal with dropping the transmission out the bottom those old 4 speeds are heavy.

The shop manual says if you use eyebolts where the third cylinder head bolt from the rear is on the left and the fourth from the rear on the right using long ½” nc eyebolts the engine and transmission will balance and be removable as an assembly. I can confirm the Chevrolet engineers were right.

http://chevy.oldcarmanualproject.com/shop/1948_51truck/51ctsm0621.htm

http://rides.webshots.com/photo/1377804259023244788ucjcVI

Have fun.

Hi, I just pulled two engines a 216 from the truck I am restoring and a 235 that I got from a guy who gave Me the frame after He used everything else, I pulled both using 2 eye bolts I got from tru value hardware 1/2 inch by 6 or 8 inchs long I also took a peice of 1 1/2 by 1 1/2 angle iron and made a spaner to keep the chain strait from the iron to the bolts so the chain pulls up and there is no angle from the bolts to the spanner I took out the 2nd and the 5th bolt from the front it is best to pull the engine and trans as a unit and than remove the trans and clutch , bellhousing after its up in the air, the eye bolts where only 8.00 bucks and where rated at I think 2000 lb each it made the job safe , because My Grandson age 13 was helping Me , and You have control over the engine it takes a little longer to set up but You will find it a much better removal , Pete

Thanks for the info Pete! I'll have to order some of those bolts. My dad owns a true value hardware store and I just checked the catalog, they are rated for 2200LBS. I didn't think of the angle iron idea, will have to use that.

i have read several times that you can't get the motor and four speed to come out together. If this is true then you need to pull the transmission first. I wouldn't use anything less than headbolt attachment points. Always keep you body away from underneath things that you are lifting. Try to plan it so that if you have a problem half way through the procedure, you can backtrack.

Hy Ferndale53, I'm going to assume from your screen name that we are talking about a 53 chevy truck [you didn't tell us, and it isn't in your profile]. I agree with truckernix, you CANNOT pull the engine and four speed trans. together, the trans. WILL NOT come over the engine rear crossmember. You MUST remove the four speed first, hope that helps.

True. On my '49, there is no way to pull the engine and transmission at the same time, because there is a frame cross-member between them. I can (and did) pull the engine, without pulling the transmission, but I first needed to support the transmission from the under side. Supporting the transmission is essential because the front of the transmission is supported by the engine, not the frame.

Use the eye-bolts and chains described above to carry 95% of the engine load. In addition, I recommend attaching an adjustable strap to the front of the engine. This will allow you to tip the engine along the axis of the crankshaft. Tipping the engine to match the angle of the transmission shaft is critical when you reinstall the engine.

A Load Leveler really helps in tilting the engine as required while coming out or in. I got mine from Speedway Motors. Harbor Freight also sells one.

You are right, the truck is a 53 Chevy 3600.

So I have to support the transmission and unbolt it from the bell housing before I can pull the engine? There are four bolts connecting the transmission to the bell housing, right?

Yes there are four bolts holding it on. If it were me, I would remove the transmission not just support it, but everyone has their own methods.

On my '49, the solid torque tube and single universal joint make it very difficult to remove the transmission. The transmission needs to move backward (toward the rear of the truck) to disengage the drive shaft from the engine and clutch. But to move the transmission backward requires unbolting the rear axle and/or a frame cross-member to create enough flexibility to get the torque tube out of the way. There might be an easier method, but it took me two full days to get my transmission out. I don't know if the '53 has similar issues.

To remove the transmission:

Just disconnect the torque tube at the u-joint and lift it up out of the way using a floor jack (or by hand, if you have the strength). Hold up the tube with a a 2x4 board that is cut to fit side-to-side inside the frame rails. Or, let the torque tube drop to the ground (it is in your way there, but not in the way of removing the transmission). Moving and holding the torque tube up is the better option.

I have done this with the rear of the truck on the ground and on stands (on stands, you have less resistance and more space to move around under the truck). Place the stands under parts that do not need to rotate. Last summer, I easily did this to remove an engine from a truck with a 3-speed and from another truck with a four speed.

Removing the transmission.

I went out and tried to disconnect the torque tube at the u-joint, but ran into a problem. I was able to get one of the u-bolts off, but the other one didn't want to budge. I wasn't about to start beating on it with a hammer for fear of breaking it. Is there any way to loosen it up without doing damage to the tube?

Also, once I finally get the two u-bolts off, to separate the two parts do I just pull up on the tube or do I have to pull them staring apart?

What are the u-bolts that you refer to? It sounds like you have two and one is giving you problems. It is not clear what you are referring to.

There are four bolts that hold a collar/cover to the rear of the transmission. Have you loosened those and slid the cover/collar and ball/"bell" backwards over the tube?

If yes, the u-joint's two, front, trunnion bearings are each held on with 2 cap screws per trunnion bearing (four cap screws/bolts).

Here is a photo the collar/cover and ball/bell that cover the u-joint.

The u-joint looks like the u-joint at the lower right of this illustration. The transmission would be to left of the u-joint.

I was able to remove the four bolts that hold the collar with no problems. The u-bolts I am referring to are part of the u-joint. Here and here are a couple pictures of what I am referring to. Try as I might, I can't get the pictured u-bolt to move at all.

Once I get that off, how do I get the drive shaft out? The shop manual says to "split joint and lower front end of rear propeller shaft". By split do they mean pull it back away from the joint or push it down? Sorry if that is a dumb question, ive never done anything like this before

Ferndale,

I apologize - I was referring to the enclosed u-joint.

Someone will most likely post advice on where to use a BFH and not hurt the yoke.

Tim

The driveshaft is out and I was able to get the collar and top two bolts on the transmission out. I took out the flywheel cover and saw the two bolts that have to come out, but don't have a clue how to get them. A socket won't fit, and a wrench doesn't really fit either. There has to be some sort of trick to do this, I'm all ears.

I just did mine this winter, not sure how that went anymore with those lower two bolts, is the flywheel in the way? BTW, I will copy word for word from the Chevrolet Truck Shop Manual, section 6-20, paragraph 26 "Remove bolts from rear engine mountings, remove front engine mounting and raise the engine, clutch and transmission from the chassis as a unit." It has other steps preceding this last step but does not mention taking out the cross member.

Hi, I pulled both those engines with no cab on the frame but I would just onbolt the 4 bolts on the trans and pull the engine ,You would have to put a floor jack under the trans to push the front up a little so when You get the engine up You will have to pull it forward to clear the trans shaft always think of the KISS principle KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID not that any of us are put somtimes all of us think to hard on somthing pulled alot of engines and safty is first , good luck and have fun , Pete

I just pulled the engine and have it hanging on the hoist. I know there are four bolts holding the bell housing to the block. I can see the two bolts on top just fine, but I can't seem to find the other two.

The shop manual just says "remove them", not where they are. Am I supposed to remove the clutch somehow before I can see the other two bolts? Can someone clarify this for me?

Picture

Thanks

Yes. You need to remove the clutch & flywheel before you can get the bell houseing off.

So I assume that since my engine is seized there is no way to remove the clutch and flywheel? It seems that I would need to be able to rotate the flywheel to get all the bolts.

If that is the case and since I have had mystery oil in the cylinders for over a month with no luck, is my next move to pull the head and tap the pistons with a wood block?

Do I have to remove anything to pull the head (except the rocker cover and head bolts of course)?

Did You try to move the crank by using a pry bar between the bell housing and the teeth on the flywheel? You may have to grind the pry bar so it fits the teeth on the flywheel ,if You do have to pull the head You gotto remove the rockers they are all on a tube so it is easy than just take all the push rods out also easy than the head bolts and the head should just come off ,You may have to give it a tap up with a pic.of wood and a hammer just take Your time ,after You do it the frist time You will see how easy it all is.Pete

there are 6 bolts holding the bell housing to the engine 2 outside 4 inside

I think you should pull the head and pan. You are taking the engine apart any way aren't you? Pull the engine apart, cam, pan. oil pump, heads, etc. Remove everything you can before you try turning the motor over again. This will make it easier turn it over because less mass and tension from other parts.

Hy Ferndale53, as others have suggested I would remove the head, then turn the engine upside down, now you can remove the oil pan, and timing gear cover [you will have to pull the balancer]. Now if you remove all the main cap bolts, main caps, and all the rod cap nuts, and rod caps, now you can lift the entire crankshaft out of the block with the flywheel and clutch attached, it will be heavy, use the hoist, hope that helps.

I got the head off, I'll try tapping the pistons with a wooden block the next time I can get out to the garage. Since I have the head off, is there anything I should do to keep it from rusting etc.? Right now I just have some mystery oil sitting in the cylinders and put some PB blaster on the block with saran wrap over it to keep stuff out of it.

3B, I was hoping to avoid really digging into this engine, so I planned on taking off the oil pan and checking everything out from the bottom once the engine is on the stand.

Well, How do the pistons and cylinders look? Are they rusted up now? Can you see why the engine is siezed up?

If you pull the tranny, why can't you pull the clutch and flywheel?

I cover my engines with large clean beach towels. A large contractor garbage bag works pretty good too. If it's going to sit for a while or you have a damp garage, spray it down with WD-40.

The cylinders are still full of mystery oil, so I can't see the top of the piston that well. I will drain one of the cylinders this weekend to get a better look at what I am dealing with. Here is a picture I just took of one of the cylinders. The flash seems to make the rust look worse then it actually is. Picture of Cylinder

I pulled the tranny before I pulled the engine. The problem is, since the engine is stuck I cant rotate the flywheel to access the flywheel to clutch bolts. Without access to those bolts, I cant get behind there to get to the bolts that connect the bellhousing to the block.

I have removed all the bolts on the clutch plate in a frozen engine by using a socket wrench and proper length extensions and a knuckle at the socket. I was able to access all the bolts from either the bottom or access openning on the bell housing.

You should be able to feel all the bolts from the bottom.

Then you should be able to get to the bolts that hold on the flywheel.

As for the cylinders and pistons. I kept adding lubricant (I used 1/2 automatic transmission fluid & 1/2 brake fluid) to the cylinders and shooting the pushrods at the crank and wrist pins with WD 40. Every night I would go out and tap on the pistons. I took a wooden dowel and a big hammer and go around the outside of the pistons. I thought that would keep the center of the pistons from breaking. And would free up the rings.

After you have the clutch plate, flywheel, and bell housing off you can use a long bar (I used a Stanley flat bar) to slowly rock the rear of the crank shaft back and forth. I used the two positioning pins used for mounting the flywheel.

Just keep working on it. Patience and time is what it takes.

Mine freed up. It took weeks.

I hope this helps.

I didn't think of using a joint and extension, now it seems so obvious! I did try getting a socket with a joint into the inspection cover, but it was slightly too big, guess I'll give it another shot.

With the dowel and hammer, should I use light tapping or a more solid hit? I'm guessing a full out swing wouldn't be a good idea.

I removed all the mystery oil from the cylinders and cleaned out all the silt and debris that was in there. One cylinder had a few small acorns and they all had a lot of silt and grime in them. To my untrained eye, the rust doesn't look too bad. Also, can someone tell me what the markings on the top of the pistons mean?

Here are some pics of what I found:
Picture 1
Picture 2
Picture 3
Picture 4
Picture 5
Picture 6

Hehehe. This looks familiar

My 53 came with the original engine. It could have been in a field for 20-30 years. It looked like it. The engine was missing both manifolds, transmission, and down draft pipe. The cylinders, engine capacity, and bell housing were full of dirt from mud daulbers. What a mess. But I took it apart little by little. Someday I will upload pictures to somewhere. I just do not know how to do that today.

I had mine torn down to just the motor & crankshaft/piston assembly on an engine stand. I bought the stand (4 wheel model) from O'Reilly auto parts. $50.

I would roll (like on a rotisserie) the engine lubricating the cylinder walls from top and bottom. Lubricate the crankcase at all bearing locations and where the pushrods connected. I lubricated the wrist pins and where the pushrods connected. I found that the wrist pins and pushrod connections were frozen up. I lubricated that area real well. I poked at everything with the dowel and hammer. I used three different weight hammers and hit harder everytime I poked at stuff. I also kept turning the crankshaft from the rear with my Stanley flat bar. I got to the point that it would never free up. I kept banging/smashing everything. Then one day it did.

I used Kroil, PB Blaster, automatic transmission/brake fluid mixture, WD 40, light sewing machine oil, and sweat. I have no idea which is best or what worked.

Just keep putting lubricants and pounding on it.

It will free up. Then you will be happy.

I am probably looked at as a hack. But I love my trucks and should be able to drive both -safely- of them by the end of the year.

I wish you the best of luck.

I went out and worked on the engine again and couldn't for the life of me get to the bolts. I can get to the four bolts on the bottom of the flywheel cover fine, but the two on top I can't. I took off the cover you mentioned, and can see the two bolts in there. I tried to stick a shallow 9/16" socket in there, but its too large. I fed a wire down the flywheel and pulled the socket up to the nut, but with an extension i couldn't get the right angle to turn in, nor did my joint fit.

Am I just having terrible luck or did I look over something else?

Hi Fernman,

That is what I did.

You are saying that you can not get the socket (only the socket) on the bolt? Then you can worm the knuckle w/extension onto the socket. It probably won't snap on but will work.

Can you get a box wrench on the bolt? Then use some sort of dowel or bar on it - to pop it with a hammer?

Once the bolt is loose you can think of another way to get it off.

But it seems to me I used sockets. I know I got the clutch & bell housing off.

I hope this helps

Any further updates?

I've been mostly working on other parts of the truck , and letting the mystery oil soak. Yesterday I tried a prybar on the flywheel and it moves a bit, than goes back to where it was. It didn't do that before, so I guess its progress.

Dennis, I was able to get the socket and knuckle partly on, but even then it still didn't want to turn. For now I've given up on taking it off and will wait until the engine frees up.

You asked about the markings on your pistons. There appears to be and "060" on there which I think indicates a .060 over piston. If this is the case than I would say that your block is at the limit for boring. I could be wrong here but I think that would be the limit.

Keep prying with the bar a little one way than the other it will start moving there is alot of leverage and its safer (for the engine) than hitting the top of the pistons with a hammer, good luck and always have fun , Pete

I agree with Pete on rocking the crankshaft over hitting the top of the pistons. I would tap the pistons lightly to help loosen them up. I also used my Stanley flat bar on the flywheel teeth and bottom of the bell housing to rock the engine back and forth.

It sounds like it is moving a little. That is a good sign. Keep doing what you are doing. Work on the other stuff to keep from getting frustrated. But go over and rock the engine while you are there.

Don't forget the pins where the rods and pistons join. I found a couple of mine frozen/sticky.

I hope this helps. It sounds encouraging.