The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area The HiPo Shop Front end too high

With the front clip temporarily bolted on to do some body work it looks like the front of my 49 Sub is going to end up too high. Hood, grille headlights not installed. I have used the Andereggen/Joyce IFS swap out of an 84 GMC half ton. It is narrowed so the tires do not stick outside of the fenders. I already have 2" dropped spindles on it and it still looks too high. Using the stock springs and P235/75R15 wheels and tires. These are temporary wheels just to move the truck around. I know I could use smaller tires and wheels in the front but wanted to avoid 2 different sizes front to back. I have driven it around at our local airport and it seems to drive and steer well. I don't want a slammed look, I just want a stock appearing stance. And I don't want to cut coils. If I bought shorter springs would this affect the steering and ride? As usual need advice. I want this truck to be a safe and comfy daily driver so I don't want to do anything too radical. I know you guys have the answer and thanks ahead of time.

Weeds

Weeds - When you say the front of the truck is too high, we need to determine if the cause is (1) springs, (2) the way the IFS is mounted, or (3) tire size.
Now if your lower control arms are parallel to the ground, then the coils springs are right. The weight on the nose of your 'burb is around 1800 lbs. with SBC motor, TH350, P.S. P.B. etc. So your coil spring needs to be able to hold up 1800 lbs and have a spring rate of 350lbs, maybe 375 lbs. I'm not familiar with the Andereggen/Joyce IFS. I've seen guys bolt in late model Chevy/GMC 1/2 ton front IFS in the AD trucks and they always look too high to me. I think it's because of the way they are bolted up under the original AD frame. I've always used Camaro/Nova IFS or Mustang II IFS. If your control arms are level with the ground, and it looks too high to you, then your IFS was installed too tall. If your lower control arms are at a downward angle to the ground, then your springs are too stiff. The P235/75/15 tire is 29"tall. I've always run P205/75/15 tires on the front, they are 27" tall.

Weeds - I had the same problem with mine after installing the front from a 78 Chevy 1/2 ton. Once I flipped the rear, the front was way too high. I put 2.5" drop spindles on it and it was still looking like a gasser. So I ordered a set of drop springs, I believe they were a 2" drop from Summitt Racing. This put it at just the right stance with the motor and tranny in place and a extra 200 pounds to simulate the weight of the front end sheet metal, radiator, etc that were not installed at the time.

The lower control arms are at a very slight downward angle toward the ball joint at the spindle and I have about 2" of travel before hitting the bump stop on the bottom A arm. I will probably install shorter bump stops to get another 1" of travel.

wbrowne and 49chevyman, thanks for the replies. Wbrowne I think the reason the front is too high is a combination of all 3 of your reasons. The lower control arms are not parallel to the ground. They slant downward toward the tires. If I understand you guys correctly 2" drop springs and P205/75R15s would give me a total 4" drop? Do you think the drop springs will affect the handling/steering? This seems like a logical way to go but I need to make sure this thing will go where I point it. The handling must take precedence over the looks to my way of thinking. Thanks again for the replies and if you guys could give me just a little more advice? Weeds

There are hundreds of late model C10's with that suspension running a 4" total drop with no problems. Be sure to take it to a good alignment shop when you are done dropping it and you should have no problems.

Kevin, thanks for the advice. In going through Summit's web site they have lots of choices for springs by many manufacturers. Prices from $49 to $250. I assume I don't want the cheapies. Do I want the progressive rate springs? They are more expensive than the non progressive so my assumption is they are a better choice? I have no clue what I need. Again thanks.

Weeds

I went thru this with my 55. I ended up cutting one coil off of the front springs,and it has worked out really nice,appearance,and handling,and ride.As always,if you go this route,be sure and get a proper front end allignment.

Weeds - If you have stock '84 GMC 1/2 ton springs, they are way too heavy for your AD 'burb. That is where most of your problem is. I looked up the stock spring specs for the '84 GMC 1/2 ton. The standard coil spring is designed for 3155 lbs of weight on the front end. Your 'burb only has about 1800 lbs on the front end. The spring rate is 843 lbs. - so even if you were to cut one coil it's still gonna be too high and the ride will be so stiff it'll feel like the front suspension is welded solid. In shopping for springs here's what you want for specs for that '84 GMC 1/2 ton front end. (1) Type D coil spring, one end is Tangential end, and the other end is pig tail end. (2) Free height of the spring is 13.6" and the load height is 10". That should level off your lower control arms. (3) get a spring load of around 1800 lbs. (to match
the front end weight of your AD 'burb). And a spring rate of about 375 lbs. (maybe 400 lbs max). You may end up having to get coil springs custom made for your truck, unless you can find some with these specs thru Summit or Jegs etc.

Check out the diameter and length then head to the local FLAPS. Most springs are made by Perfect Circle.

I know that S-trucks have 5 different spring rates available. Dont know if the diameter is the same (doubt it), however may be worth picking thru the boxes or hunting thru a salvage yard with a tape measure.

Hey Weeds...
What exactly is the "Andereggen/Joyce IFS swap" ?
I googled it and didn't come up with much of anything.

You might do better googling Andereggen separately. Joyce is too common a name to return usuable results and coupling them together probably excludes hits on either of them, while the published stuff is generally one or the other.

Both are names associated with swapping the IFS crossmember of suspension from a '63 to '87 Chevy/GMC pickup to an AD pickup.

I think you'll find links to one or both of these in the Tech Tips here or referrenced in other threads here.

Andereggen is often quoted on this swap, but he was never happy with the end result and planned to go back stock on his truck. My understanding is he has since sold the truck without completing it.

here is the link http://www.chevytrucks.org/tech/1963-1987%20IFS%20UPGRADE.htm

I expect to see Andereggen on Monday. I'll be asking questions about his experience.

Well Ghostrider...It is a 1963-87 Chevy/GMC front IFS used on AD or TF trucks. I just found out myself that they call it the Andereggen/Joyce IFS swap. The two names refer to an artical I wrote a few years back and is posted on chevytrucks.org and an article that came out in a magazine I'm guessing some ten years ago. This suspension can be adapted on other vehicles also.

As for the high ride height, if you look at a stock 1963-87 frame the front crossmember sits in a hump in the frame. The AD truck frame is straight, no hump therfore increasing ride height. To solve this you can use droped spindles and lowered springs. Do not cut the coil springs. They don't function properly after that. I did something different. I used air bags. This is a fully adjustable set up and very easy to instal.

Hope this answers some questions.

Steve Andereggen

I had seen mention of that IFS swap on the net before, but never associated it with your name. You must be honored to have such a procedure named after you!

It is something I may like to do on a future project at some point. You mention in another post how you were unhappy with the track width being too wide. And it looks like you had already narrowed it 1 5/8" or so to match your existing frame width.
If I were to do this swap I would probably use the donor front frame clip with the humps, narrow the width suitable for an AD and stub the whole thing into my stock frame. Granted...it's a lot more work than just bolting in the crossmember.

I've been down this road myself. I used Steves article as a reference to install a '79 on my '50 but my problem was the exact opposite of yours, it was way too low. I had installed dropped spindles and springs and got a great look but it wasn't practical. Here's a link to a previous post. I ended up going back to the original springs with one coil cut off. That raised it up abit but the scrub line is still alittle low. I'll put the stock spindles on when the weather warms up a bit to see how it looks.

wbrowne, thanks for the specs on what kind of springs to look for. Going to start with Summit and see what they have and go from there.

Weeds

wbrowne, where were you able to find the spring rates and load for the 73-87 chevy truck ifs?

Specs came from NAPA coil spring book. The book lists the weight load of the spring (the weight on the front end of the truck), the spring rate - which means after it's installed in the truck with the full weight of the truck on it - how much weight is required to compress the spring 1". The free height of the spring ( meaning how tall is the spring right out of the box), the load height of the spring ( how tall is the compressed spring with the truck weight on it), and the coil diameter etc. I gave all this info in detail to "Weeds" in a previous post. Check out the "Search" option for more details.

I ordered the SUM G726 springs from Summit and when I installed one of them it was loose in the IFS between the upper and lower control arms. Sent them back to Summit. They were 3 1/2 inches shorter than the originals. I have cut one coil off of one of the originals. I need advice on how to get the last coil to sit in the pocket in the lower control arm like it should. I think I need to heat about half of the bottom coil and bend it so it is roughly perpendicular to the vertical axis of the coil. Does this sound like it might work? Maybe should have gone M2 but I am too far into it now to go back besides I like the fact that the Andereggen is a truck front suspension. As always need advice. Thanks Bolters.

Weeds

No advice forthcoming so having cut one coil off of one spring I went ahead and heated half of the bottom coil and bent it so that now it sits in the pocket like it should. Worked good so I went ahead and did the same with the other spring. I installed the front stabilizer bar and today will try to fab some upper shock mounts. All the front end components are cinched up and cotter pins installed. Wheels going back on and then we shall see how it sits. Hopefully the front end is now not too high.

Weeds

Look through my photos on Webshots. there are some pic's of a shock adapter that I believe I picked up off Ebay for around $20. Drill a hole in the frame and it bolts right on.

Robert C, Thanks for the tip. I looked through your webshots and I will go to evil bay to see if I can find those upper shock mounts.

Weeds

No luck on E- Bay. Fabricated upper shock mounts out of some rectangular tube I had laying around. Shocks are now installed. The lower control arms are now level with the floor. I put the tires back on and now the stance is just about perfect. I would advise anyone contemplating the Andereggen IFS swap that you need to at least have a metal cutting band saw and a drill press. It will work but there is a lot of fabricating involved. To get the front end back down to stock height I had to use 2" drop spindles and cut one coil out of the stock springs. A long tedious project but I think the end result was worth it. I ended up with front disc brakes, IFS, and power steering. Now on to the body work on the front clip. I'm getting there.

Weeds

Looking good Weeds. I have mine torn down right now. I 'm experimenting with a set of tubular lower control arms. I've found that the cut coils I was using were too stiff. The control arms are 3"lower than stock so I figure based on how they are constructed I can use stock coils for an improved ride. I looked back through this thread and given that the front of the AD is lighter, I'm thinking about using the springs from a V-6. I'll keep you posted.

Took it to my local Chevy dealer to get it aligned. I have used these guys for years and their alignment guy is one of the two best wrenches in this little town. While it was there I had them time the distributor and adjust the carb. The front end sheet metal and the doors are not yet installed. I weighed each piece, fenders, doors, grille, etc, etc. The total was 272 pounds. I laid a 2X10 across the front bumper brackets and put enough cement blocks on it to equal the uninstalled front sheet metal. When I got it back it really ran and drove nice. When I brought it in the showroom emptied out as well as the service department. None of them had ever seen a 49 sub before.

Weeds

Hi Weeds,
RE: differences in tire sizes,,if one size tire is 27" and the other ir 29",(as discussed on page one of this thread)youve only got a 1" difference in ride height.
Good Luck,
Marty