The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop IFS Swaps that are on the road?

I've been reading up on IFS swaps that put a '63 to '87 pickup IFS under an AD pickup. This is an idea that is often talked about, and I know some here have done it.

What I'd like to find is someone who has done this swap and is driving the truck.

My 'review of the literature' so to speak has not turned up anyone who I can contact who has finished the project and put the truck in regular use. Maybe I'm missing someone obvious, and if so please point me to that person.

Over the last couple of days I've reread posts on this subject going back to 2004. I've read the various linked articles on how to do it. The common thread seems to be the trucks are not yet road worthy, or the owner has disappeared from the online communities I'm part of, or, even worse, one often quoted owner has given up and is going back stock.

I'd like to get some comments from people who have done this swap and are actually driving it.

Thanks!

I have a 53 3100 and have done the swap. I used an IFS from a 72 pickup. It is a lot of work, but the unit just bolts right in. It is wider than your original AD front and can be narrowed about 1 1/2 ". It sits pretty high but I put in 2 1/2 drop spindles and 1'drop coils to lower it. I ended up rebuilding the entire unit with new ball joints, tie rods, idler arm, control arm bushings, etc. The entire project ended up costing me about $800, including $250 for the drop spindles alone. Its drives pretty well, but my biggest problem has been getting the alignment right. Good luck and let us know your progress--- PICTURES PLEASE!!

Eddie did you narrow yours? Did you follow any particular set of instructions or did you figure this out on your own?

Its alignment issues that worry me, and it seems like that should not be a problem even if the IFS has been narrowed.

I'm considering this as a solution for one of my projects, but would not yet say its the way I'm going to go. I need to be convinced its the right answer first!

OldSub, No I didnt narrow mine, but you need to know I was a complete novice before I started this project. I kind of learned everything as I went. I learned from my mistakes and would probably try to narrow it if I had to do over again. Thats still an option in the future as you all know, these projects are never really done. My truck was a complete basket case when I started and I am proud to say I have basically done everything myself.

Do you have a sense of why yours isn't aligning right? Is it not square with the frame? Or the caster not right because of the mounting? Or maybe the steering linkage not mounted in the right places? What are the symptoms? I may not be able to make suggestions that will help you, but perhaps I can figure out how to make my right...

I think I have figured it out, thanks to many that have answered my caster angle problem question. It all comes down to making sure you measure exactly where everything goes and then measuring again before you tear into it. The best way to get your front IFS is to buy the entire front end with everything attached. A friend of mine and I took a sawzall and a very long extension cord to the salvage yard and cut the frame off a 72 1/2 ton at the firewall and then just rolled the entire assembly up onto a trailer. I was then able to take off what I needed as I went along. I had to fabricate a new steering column with parts from Borgeson and Ididit, but I was able to use the 72's steering box. My only regret is that its not power steering. I am getting a good workout on my arm and shoulder muscles when I drive it.

There is a good tech article in at www.chevytrucks.org in the tech section

I have a '72 Chevy 3/4-ton frame with IFS already. Since I'm working on a 1-ton I think this is the right stuff to use. Since I already have it, and since the frame and IFS is complete, I think I'm good on those aspects. I figure to keep it and measure it carefully as I move ahead if I do this.

I just want to be sure this is workable before deciding to go ahead. It seems like a sensible approach, but since I've found few who have actually finished one of these swaps and made it work, I was hoping to learn the secrets from those who had suceeded.

I started this thread when I learned the guy who wrote the tech article you've referenced had given up trying to make this swap work. He indicated he has alignment problems and had decided to go back stock instead of making the IFS work. I also discovered he lives in a city I plan to drive through early in January, so I may try to arrange to meet him and ask questions personally.

Steve, Not adding anything here, however watching intently. I have been asked by folks looking at my 1/2T / 3/4T solution about 1 ton.

Steve, Not adding anything here, however watching intently. I have been asked by folks looking at my 1/2T / 3/4T solution about 1 ton.

Mine has a narrowed Cadillac front end form a early 70's that my uncle put over 50 grand on before i got it so far it works well and tracks nice with no tire wear from an alighnment problem.

SW my goal is a trailer pulling truck, not a car, so I'm trying to stay with truck parts. I know the Cadillac weighs as much as a light truck, and I even have a '76 Cadillac I intend to use for the 500, but the idea of using it for this just doesn't appeal to me.

Steve, I have searched here, chevytrucks and at the HAMB as I am sure you have done as well. you may be on your own.

Have you considered the IFS off a 1 Ton late model GM(late 80's, early 90's)? It would have to be narrowed just like the 3/4T your looking at, however it is another option.

Scott I have an '89 K3500, but that's the only '88-'98 1-ton I've ever looked at very hard. I don't know what the two wheel drive type looks like, but since I'm not inclined to narrow the IFS at all its not like the C3500 would solve my problem.

I think if I had one, I'd be considering using the entire chassis.

I've received a reply from the guy who wrote the material FastEddie pointed at. He lives just off I-5 in a town I need to pass through in a few weeks. It looks like Steve will buy Steve coffee and talk about truck suspensions.

Steve,

cant find a c3500, however here is a complete k3500 chassis with powertrain

http://seattle.craigslist.org/est/pts/954072527.html

Here is a C2500 without powertrain
http://portland.craigslist.org/wsc/pts/954168003.html

and looking on car-parts, here is a salvage yard that has a 92 1 ton 2wd: Al's Lynnwood Truck Parts USA-WA(Everett) Request_Quote 1-800-334-3622 / 1-425-743-9191

Scott

Those look interesting. If the ones in Oregon where closer I might chase them. But while I feel my job remains secure I've closed my wallet securely and plan to use the parts I already have on hand as much as possible. My uncle lives in the community where those two are so my trailer has been within a few miles already.

Well just a thought since you have the Caddy, I really took a good look at my truck and the Caddy suspension under mine is pretty BEEFY and stout, it is heavier built than my 75 Laguna, I guess to carry the Big Block motor and Vehicle itself.
I know its car parts but I bet it is just as heavily built as any 2 wheel drive 1/2 ton truck of the era....you may just have the parts on hand after all?
Tim

i have a pacer ifs, it is ok but if ihad to do over i would go with mustangII and i would be way ahead. it is hard to repair and out dated. i have had the pacer ifs for 20 years. btw mine is a 54/3100.

This truck is going to have 8-lug wheels and full floating rear hubs. I want to run 16 inch wheels with real light truck tires and I don't think the Cadillac IFS would be the right way to do that.

This truck is going to have 8-lug wheels and full floating rear hubs. I want to run 16 inch wheels with real light truck tires and I don't think the Cadillac IFS would be the right way to do that.

I think either the original straight axle or the '63 to '87 design IFS are my most likely choices. A later modified straight axle (Grigg style) is probably the next direction I'd consider with straight axle type four-wheel-drive another possible contender.

Steve, I thing since your wallet is clamped shut that you use the 3/4T chassis that you have handy. The center section can be used on the existing rear if you want to change gears.

I myself would look at the C3500 front end at the salvage yard, however that is me.

I agree that the Caddy would be fine for a 1/2T, however I believe that you intend to load the crap out of it when your done and will need the extra heft of the 3/4T or 1T parts.

That being stated, I think you are on the bleeding edge of the swapology here and are on your own. There are plenty of 1/2T swaps, S-10 swaps, however the 1Tons that have been done are on P30 chassis with straight axles.

Swapology. I love that term.

Being a college-educated man myself, I think I've identified a lot of BS in Swapology and I'm trying to find that guy who has completed a graduate program and has real world experience with stuff like mine.

I'm going to use that new word at least once a day for the next week and anytime anyone asks I'll let them know I got it from you! Thanks!

Steve, I wish I could help, but as you indicated mine is not on the road yet. Body work is holding me up. The reason I decided to narrow mine had more to do with getting the wheels inside the fenders that it did with fitting the crossmember to the frame. I initially mounted it with 3/4" thick spacers on each side. There is no reason why this would not work OK, but I did not like it, so I narrowed it using the method Mobileortho and others have done.

I do not foresee any problems with future alignment even though I have lowered mine with drop spindles and springs. It looks good now, like an OEM marriage. I had another Bolter, TNtrucknut come by to study it. He has done several subframes and other swaps, but liked the way this one turned out.

If the wider fenders from the bigger AD trucks were used, I think the wheels would fit inside them great. I'm not sure if you would need the whole front end from the bigger truck, or just the fenders and grille. I have seen some nice front ends for these big trucks go for cheap since everyone only wants the 1/2 ton stuff.

Kevin I just ran through you pictures wondering how much of your suspension swap would be visible. It looks like in addition to narrowing the IFS and using dropped spindles you've modified the lower a-arms to get more drop.

I continue to believe that done right alignment and handling should be fine. But as I said above, it was when I discovered that one of the often quoted early swapologists had abandoned the effort because of alignment challenges that I started this thread. On that basis I really want to understand what others have done and experienced.

Changing fenders or widening fenders are options I've considered. I have both Chevy 2-ton type fenders, and GMC 3-ton fenders, which are wider yet than the 2-ton Chevy fenders. I don't care for the style of the biggest fenders, and don't want to use the hood and grill from the 2-ton type.

I think widening fenders, or possibly flairing the fenders similiar to some '88 to '98 trucks I've seen are more likely approaches I'd take.

To widen fenders I've considered cutting two sets of fenders, offsetting the cuts to allow splicing fenders together an inch or two wider.

What I've not made clear in this thread is what I'm trying to accomplish in building this truck. It is a 1-ton and I intend to maintain its load rating because I'm going to use this truck to pull my tandom axle car trailer. This truck will be powered by a Cadillac 500 and use a GM 14-bolt full float rear axle.

I sometimes see proud looking trucks that stand tall and have a wide stance. In trying to describe the look I'm after its become apparent that I need to take some pictures next time I catch one parked somewhere. It may be that simply mounting this IFS under the truck may put the tires just where I need for this look I'm after. The question is, in an area where rain is a fact of daily life, can I make it legal and practical...

oldsub, I am building a 48 chevy 1/2ton that is of course not on the road. In fact I am in the process of installing a IFS from a 77 chevy 1/2ton.
In preparing for my project I spoke with the guy (Steve Andereggen Jr.)that wrote the articule about the swap that is often talked about. He's a nice guy but he was a little vague about why his project didn't work out. He had problems with the placement of the gearbox and idler arm angles. Also talked via email to Bob Fisher who has a cool website Bobsplayce.home.att.net Bob's truck is on the road with no driveability problems. Other helpful info was Dave Chapman on the stovebolt about installing this IFS on a 1958 taskforce truck. I liked his approach of detailed measuring. He ended up narrowing his frame to fit the ifs. All these are 1/2ton trucks but the methods and results should be the same for 3/4ton trucks.
Perhaps another approach could be a 3/4 straight four wheel drive axel with the benefits of transfer case gearing and of course 4whl drive. This is something that I am mulling over for a 51 3600 parts truck that I have.

I've traded email with Andereggen and made an initial arrangement to meet him when I travel though the area where he lives in a few weeks.

I have an approach in mind to assure I get it all right, but I didn't start this thread to explain how I'm thinking I'll approach this but to learn how others have done it successfully.

Here is my thought. I have the entire frame from the '72 3/4-ton but I'll only use the front poration back as far as the shock mounts, which are just behind the IFS. Rather than make spacers to mount parts to the '55 1st frame, I'm thinking I'll trim the top edges of the '72 frame to allow the '55 1st to drop inside it. Then I'll create spacers to hold the two frames in correct relationship, and trim away excess from the '72 frame.

The advantage is that I keep both the body mounting points from the '55 1st frame and also maintain the original relationship of all suspension and steering parts, because they will still be mounted to the '72 frame.

Downside is I'm adding a bit of additional weight and it won't look pretty.

I think the two keys to making this approach work is correct horizontal alignment on both axis and correct location of the axle centerline.

That is what I'm thinking, but if someone has done it another way that proved successful I'd sure like to know what they did...

Steve,

The reason I modified the lower A-arms was for wheel clearance due to the drop. The late model Jeep wheels I am using are a 2" positive offset (like a front wheel drive wheel). They are 17", which I thought should be plenty to clear the A-arms once lowered. But no, the hit as soon as you turned the wheel. So I modified them. That is the one ugly piece for the front suspension. I am considering tubular A-arms to replace the stock ones, but cannot find a set cheap and am not certain they will clear either.

Kevin have you considered other wheels?

I have put the 71 and newer pickup cross members (to get the five hole bolt pattern) into AD trucks and the 71 up van crossmembers into the 55-59 TF trucks. The pickup crossmembers are 4 inches narrower than the vans. All these were turn key jobs so they're on the road. On any suspension transplant I always have the DONOR vehicle sitting on a level floor with the correct size tires and pull all my linear and angle measurements from it, especially the degree of angle of the A-frames/control arms. When this data is transferred to the project under construction I have never had any brake dive or alignment problems. Two local people that have these trucks are Ken at Ken's Auto Electric 972-578-1067, a 1950 1/2 ton AD that he drove every day for years and Tom at Pingleton-Howard CPA 972-335-9754, a 57 1/2 ton TF. I think Ken has sold the 1950 after many a mile but could give you his thoughts. Tom is a numbers guy but could give a driving impression. I know you are going with the heavier truck components but the set up should be the same. Good luck.

Steve,

Yeah, I priced several sets of steelies from the various manufacturer's. They were all pretty steep. The late model Jeep wheels are laying all around where owners have upgraded from stock. You can get them in 17 or 18". I should have got the 18" ones, they may have cleared the stock lower A-arms. Even so, I have less than $180 in 4 brand new aluminum 5 spoke rims and 4 Goodyear HT shoes. Have I mentioned I am cheap?

I like Evan's idea of leveling and measuring the donor angles prior to removing. I wish I had done that.

steve when the weather clears up i willtake some pic's of the 59' i have sitting on a 67'-70' 3/4 ton frame. i will tell you the track width is too wide for AD trucks unless you narrow them. why not add disc brakes and toyota ps.? i do realize comfort is always a factor but when your towing/hauling last thing you want is getting to comfy.

Gotta love this weather... Its kept me away from my projects, and changed my travel plans. I still hope to catch up with Andereggen but may run out of time.

Gregg I'm seriously looking at the IFS because it solves another problem. I need to do something to allow putting a transmission where the bellhousing crossmember sets. Once I cut that out I loose the structural function that it provides right where the rear of the front springs mount.

So either I need a way to mount my motor without cutting that crossmember out, or I need to make the IFS swap. Or find a third answer that keeps the crossmember and fits my motor/transmission combo in the truck.

I've looked at mounting the motor higher, which would require cutting into the firewall and floor. Cutting the floor would not be a big problem, but the tailshaft ends up real high too, and even with a 137 inch wheel base the long tailshaft Cadillac automatic the ujoint angles look too sharp for my comfort.

So maybe tomorrow it will be warm enough to play with my mockup and find a way to make it work.

Yesterday I had lunch with Steve Andereggen Jr and enjoyed a visit to his shop. He has quite a collection of truck parts and books and is building a beautiful truck.

However, he is not using an IFS as described in the web page he posted some years ago. He ran into problems and as he worked to sort them out decided he'd rather have a stock suspension any way.

Steve sold the modified frame, bought an unmolested frame, and has a straight axle in place under the front of his truck.

The problem he encountered should be avoidable and he and I discussed ways to avoid it. The primary issue is getting the steering box and idler arm mounted in the correct place. Steve's suggestion is to make templates from the donor frame.

I'm personally still torn as to whether or not I will persue this approach. I've seen a truck locally that has the swap done, and I've seen it running down the highway. Unfortunately I do not know the name of the owner and have no idea how to contact him. I am going to pursue contacting him.

Also another member recently let me know he is performing this IFS swap, and I'm going to visit his shop to see his approach and follow his success. I don't know if I'll continue posting in this thread, but in time I will report what I decide to do, and very likely pictures and reports of my success or failure...

Steve, it sounds like the issue was steering geometry and not suspension geometry.

Yeah Scott I agree. He used the steering box mount bracket that is provided with the CPP power steering conversion and didn't say how he located the idler arm. Something in that wasn't what it needed to be.

On a related note, I dug through some of my car show pictures last night and found the 1-ton GMC camper that is the running IFS swap that I've seen on the highway. Amoung the shots is one showing the owner's name and city.

Does anyone here know a Joe Chainey of McKenna Washington?

The truck is distinctive. Its a '50 GMC with a big camper instead of a bed or box and its a single wheel tandem axle setup. It also has a Cummins emblem on the hood and a Cummins under the hood.

I'd like to talk to this guy about what he did on his.

Idler arm location should be easy. There is plenty on the HAMB about steering conversions.

You may want to try whitepages.com to find Joe.

I think the answer to getting the idler and steering box correct is to duplicate the locations relative to the crossmember from stock.

Andereggen suggested creating a template. I'm thinking since I have the frame the crossmember is attached to and need to create spacers and brackets anyway, I'll use that '72 frame as first template, and then spacer, adding and cutting away as needed.

I've tried a couple of internet searches to find Joe Chainey and have not found a listing that matches what I know of him close enough to make a cold call. My short-term approach is to hope someone here knows him and can introduce me.

Its also possible I'll get impatient and just start calling people who are named Chainey as there seems to be at least half a dozen listings within 20 or 30 miles of McKenna and I bet one of them knows the guy I'm trying to reach, and its likely one of the listings includes the right phone number.

But I'd prefer to start with an email introduction from someone he knows rather than start out as a strange voice on the phone.

And another alternative is to load all the listings I've found in the GPS and go for a drive...

My $0.02. Judging by your research on the subject you are not a stalker, and by the amount of people that have been following this post there are a lot of people interested in the end result. Don't be afraid to cold call! If I had successfully done this I would be proud to help others accomplish the same. Hang in there! Don't forget the most difficult projects are the most rewarding!

I just ran across this thread while doing a search for a Stovebolt member with no results. So, I did a search on myself and found this thread. Wow! I am amazed on how many people actually used this set up. Plus the fact they call it the Andereggen/Joyce IFS swap. Anyway, I've talked to many people over the years about this swap and have also posted an article on chevytrucks.org to help answer some questions. I never did complete the project as I ran into some problems.

First, the steering geometry is not set up right on my truck as I eyeballed everything not realizing how criticle it was. I didn't get the front frame section with my doner crossmember so I guessed. Big mistake on my part. I should have made some sort of template of a frame section to correct the problem.

Second, and the main reason I gave up was the wheels I wanted to use stuck outside the fender like a sore thumb. The only way to fix this and use those wheels is custom rotors. I couldn't find anyone to make them for me. Not even at SEMA in Las Vegas!

My main goal going into this project was to have a IFS that road stock height and use my 90's era S-10 alloy wheels. I'm not a fabricator or welder so everything over time was jobbed out and was getting very expensive for me.

The steering geometry would be an easy fix after making templates off an original 1963-87 truck frame. I also seen a program on a weekend tv show showing how to change out the stock linkage and replace it with a rack and pinion set up. This would also fix the problem. The one ares I was stuck on was the track width.

I also found a thread in my search that involved ride height. First off if you look at a stock 1963-87 frame the front crossmember sits in a hump in the frame. The AD truck frame is straight, no hump therfore increasing ride height. To solve this you can use droped spindles and lowered springs. Do not cut the coil springs. They don't function properly after that. I did something different. I used air bags. This is a fully adjustable set up.

So that leaves Track width. Unless I went with some other wheels such as a custom offset steel wheel. My wheels just would not work. This was my main reason for switching back to stock suspension for now. It will get me on the road again until I find something else that works. It's been almost 10 years since my truck has been on the road.

Along with my search last night I found a guy in the swap meet section, parts for sale that is building a crossmember set up to use S-10 components. I'm currently checking with him on ride height and track width. He is planning to build and sell this as a kit.

If anyone has questions feel free to call or e-mail me.

Thanks again,
Steve Andereggen

Steve, that would be me using the GM Metric part (G-body and S-series) - I emailed you some information as well as replied to your post....

I believed you now answered how the idler was located. As you found out, it only takes a minor shift in alignment to make things caddywhompous

I think That Steve (OldSub) is looking to keep some beefy suspension under his truck for hauling without doing a frame swap or front clip swap.