The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area The Electrical Bay starter

started the 54 235 under the hood using a screwdiver. i took the spring off the stomper, so it would be easier. i think i got excited when i finally got it started. i ran around to the drivers side to work on the carb and i think the starter did not fully release. something got real noisy. shut motor off. press starter and i just get a frying sound for a sec then it shorts out positive battery cable at the battery. any ideal on what i might have accomplished? ccb

ccb,

My guess is that you mashed the starter switch in such a fashion that it is stuck or deformed or screwed up inside. Either that or the linkage is tweaked and holding the thing ON.

It's not hard to pull the starter and I'll bet you see immediately what is wrong. My question is about 'shorting out the positive cable'...what does that mean, what is it shorting to or against?

These starters are real tough, and the starter drive has a sprag clutch in it so you can overrun it for a minute without fatal damage.


Stuart

the first time it shorted the pos cable on the battery, i tightend the connection. it did not matter how tight it was once i hit the starter i lose all power. i can tap the positive connection at the battery and power back up. i will pull starter and look at it. ccb

yep, you fried the starter

ccb,

I don't think it's the starter. It might be the starter switch but not the starter. The real problem appears to be your battery and cables. There is something going on their that isn't right.

All cable connections must be tight, clean and sound. Cables should have factory ends on them. Replacement, bolt on ends are bad news. To clean the positive post and cable, you need to actually scrape the coating off with a knife. When you see bright new lead you're in business.

Take a look inside the little starter switch on top of the starter. It's pretty simple and it might be the source of your problems. Good luck.

Stuart

No doubt it sounds like the starter stayed engaged, but if you shut it off within the first couple of minutes the starter may be ok. Im with Stuart, something isnt right on the battery terminal. In a very short amount of time the wires related to the starter and starting would get very, very hot. I would suggest back tracking all the related wires to make sure nothing melted down. Pull off the switch on top of the starter and make sure the contact didnt stick to the post.
If it turns out to be the starter, what will happen is that if the starter runs for a long period of time, the soldered pins that attach to the commutator bars will heat up and throw the solder out of the pins. This of course trashes the armature. You have to have a soldering pot to fix the armature.
Let us know what you find and if you need any starter parts or help private message me.
Ken

i took the starter off today. it would not do anything on the bench with battery cables hook up tp it. i took it to an old timer who grew up rebuilding gen and starters. you should have seen his face when i showed him that old starter. he figured he had all the parts for it and would charge me 40.00 if he could get it to work and nothing if it won't. i figured i thrashed it trying to start the motor. i searched and read all the post on starters and learned alot. let ya'll know if i get it running. ccb

my old timer couldn't fix the starter, i took it to a starter and generator shop today and they confirmed it was left engaged and spun some of the wires. good news is they can rebuild it for 75.00 and the also said it was a 12 volt starter. everything on this 54 seems to be 12 volts. it had a 12 volt generator that i swapped out for an alt. the guys at the shop seemed to think 54 was a year that the early 54s was 6 and the late 54s were 12. i don't know for sure but it was good news to find out was a 12 volt starter. ccb

I would humbly suggest that next time, don't take the return spring off the foot stomper linkage.

Listen, the foot-stomper was designed to be mashed or stomped with yer boot. Now, if ya cain't reach the foot stomper with yer own boot, 'cause yer gonna be workin' with yer head under the hood, get some cowboy to he'p ya. 'Bout anybody I know would be more'n happy to drop by, set in the cab, 'n' mash the foot stomper whenever you say so.

Now see, when you manually actuate the linkage with a screwdriver sans return spring, you do run the risk of having a continuous electrical connection with that starter switch on the top of the starter motor housing.

That might explain the shorted (sic) positive cable. I really don't think you have anything "shorted," because a short involving the positive battery cable results in things getting red hot real quick, burning insulation, and a release of all smoke contained in the cable and maybe the battery to the real shouting event called "fire!"

I suspect that when you engaged the starter with the lever (screwdriver) instead of your foot, with the return spring on the mechanical linkage disconnected, the whole starter motor remained engaged electrically, since there was no reason (such as the return spring) to return to rest.

The overrunning clutch inside the starter motor presumes that once the engine begins to run faster than the starter motor that you will take your foot off the stomper. The spring on the linkage pulls the linkage away from the actuaing lever and the electrical switch. The overrunning clutch drops the pinion gear out of the flywheel and everything goes to rest inside the starter motor until you need to start the eingine again.

Uh, oh! One BIG thing you mentioned. 12 volts vx. 6 volts. Oh, horsefeathers! Get somebody else here to chime in on 6v vs. 12v. vs. number of flywheel teeth, vs. chew your starter and/or flywheel all to heck and spit the parts out.

Quick! Go read some Tech Tips!!!!!!!

Do it before you reinstall the starter motor and try once again to fire 'er up!

you are a 100% right. the spring goes back on the starter and i will get some help. i have read all the 6 vs 12 post and i know there are differences. but as a new bolter i don't recognise the difference in starters. i just assumed it was a 6v. the whole truck appered to be original and everything has been 12v. you have left an excellent post on starters. i wish i had read it before i got the screwdriver out. hopefully it will save a future bolters starter. but for mine............it exploded!