The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop No Aranca (problems in Big D)

After 9 years I do have the engine. It is in the truck. And it won't run for very long. Poop. What is the problem. I think that it is electrical. We get gas.

So. I filled up the cooling system with antifreeze and water. I put oil in the block and turned the oil pump (with drill and screw driver thing) until there was visible oil in the rocker arm assembly. And there is gas. I had the carburetor rebuilt by a professional so that is not the problem.

Electrical. OK. I understand that most of the stuff is old but new. I put the points at .018 the book says .019 with start up. Who squabbles about .001. Or what ever the feeler gauges numbers are. Oh. The new coil was getting hot so I put in the old one. It stayed cool.

What else is there? Condensor. Coil. Regulator. Distributor.

How do I go through the system and check for what it could be?

Thank you very much.

The engine would run for a short time but then die.

Dennis,

While there is a chance your problem could be electrical, it sure screams fuel. Normally when an engine starts and runs, then fizzles out it's because it ran out of gas.

If you can recreate the problem, have a squirt bottle of fuel handy and give the carburetor a shot after it croaks. If it tries to fire back up, it's lack of fuel causing the problem. You can even keep it of running by squirting fuel into the carburetor.

Electrical malfunctions are usually a go, no-go kind of deal.

Stuart

Stuart. As always. Thank you.

What I am going by is that the man that rebuilt the engine is present. I did not want to harm, destroy, or invalidate any form of warranty to the engine.

The gas injection is a one gallon can hung from the open hood with a gravity line (5/16 inch) into the carburetor. I asked if there was a difference between this form of gas introduction and running a line from the intake line at the fuel pump? He said no. What do you think?

I was thinking - fuel pump and pressurized fuel injection.

I am no mechanic but would have opted with the line from the can into the fuel pump then on to the carburetor.

But I went with his expertise.

Any help on that?

Dennis,

Your temporary tank setup certainly would preclude any 'debris in the system' issues, that's for sure. My only thought would be, without the pressure supplied by a fuel pump, any slight hanging or resistance of the float or needle and seat would cause the carburetor to run dry..or maybe 'shy' of fuel.

An electrical failure usually makes the engine shut off abruptly, just like you turned off the key. Fuel issues usually cause it to fizzle slowly as it gradually dies from starvation.

I would tend to agree with you on the line from temporary tank to suction side of the fuel pump. Could you convince him to try it. None of these attempts will harm the engine and shouldn't worry the gentleman that built it.

Stuart

Stuart,

He kept looking at the distributor. I tried to keep up with him but I am no mechanic. I can usually understand but would never be a threat of putting a mechanic out of work.

I think we have the distributor in correctly. We got the compression stroke and lined up the ball with the timing pointer (on the bell housing).

When the engine did run he said that it sounded like fuel starvation. I was then quizical about the gravity flow fuel tank. He works a lot with older cars and said that the gravity flow should keep the bowl full and even if the bowl was full the engine should run for a couple of minutes before it died.

I do not believe he would object to connecting the fuel pump and putting the line in the gallon can.

By the way. I am using a gallon can of gas because I cannot find a larger can to purchase gas for the trucks tank. They were all purchased by the people going back to Houston/coastal Texas after the hurricane. I never thought of that.

Dennis,

Maybe I don't understand how long it will run? If it starts every time with the key and runs for a minute or so, then dies, it isn't electrical.

If this is the case, and you let it sit for a few minutes then it starts up and does the whole routine again, it again says 'lack of fuel'. I'm not a mechanic either but this is how it appears to me.

Stuart

I wasn't paying attention to whether it was starting everytime. I was taking the back seat. I was doing what I was told.

I have been thinking of doing what we discussed. That is. To put a line from the intake of the fuel pump into the gas can. And connect the line to the carburetor.

I don't think that would hurt anything. Would it?

Oh. I am getting good oil pressure. And I am happy that all the gauges move. That gives me the feeling that they are all working. Cool.

Then. If it doesn't start or the same thing keeps happening we could have another discussion. Zoom Zoom

Thanks for all your help and advice.

I think fuel too but would check out the float level. You say it was rebuilt by a professional bu that doesn't preclude an error in setting the float.
Just another thought.

+1 to all theory's about the fuel to the fuel pump for "real life conditions"

Dirt bikes used to feature a vented gas cap with a tube. Plug that puppy up with mud or crimp the tube up by the handlebar, and you'll chase your tail the rest of the day trying to figure out why it does the same thing as yours. If your luck is good, you'll figure it out. If bad, it'll cure itself, only to happen another time on the trail.

I suggest I heard/read somewhere on here that the fuel pump (line) pressure is something way low like 4 or 5 psi. If thats the case, you can imagine it wouldn't take much fluid head to negate that flow of gravity if your can is not vented to provide good drained (SUCKED) flow.


I don't know too much about this stuff though. Culd have saved everyone a bunch of time by just saying +1?

GeeVee

Thanks to all for the input, suggestions, and advice.

Simple question: On the 1955 235 engine does it matter if the gas line from a gas source to the carburetor is gravity flow or from the fuel pump?

Last Saturday it was gravity.

Thanks again. I appreciate your input.

I would definitely get the fuel pump into the circuit. I've seen neoprene-tipped carburetor needle valves that would hang up with just the upward pressure of the float, and give the same symptoms you're describing when a gravity-flow fuel supply was used. Even a couple of pounds of fuel pressure will push the needle valve off the seat and assure that the float bowl stays full.
Jerry

Jerry, thank you for your input.

My mechanic friend works on these older stuff. He was quoting that the earlier Model As had their gas tanks in the front of the cabs under the wind shield and were a gravity flow. That worked fine. He said that there should be enough gas in the carburetor bowl to keep it running for a couple of minutes. I was concerned because we had to run the RPMs up on the engine to keep it running. I also thought that it is said to keep the RPMs up during break in.

This is why I was unclear on the gravity vs. fuel pump thingy. Shoot. I hope that my fuel pump works. I also wondered how far a gallon of gas would go. I couldn't find a bigger can - they all went to Houston.

Again. I am trying to do the right thing. I want it to run strong for the rest of its and/or my time.

Thank you all again.

The Model A had an all-metal needle valve, not a rubber-tipped one. The flexible tip needle valves seal better, especially if there's a little dirt in the fuel, but they're definitely prone to stick closed with low or no fuel line pressure.
Jerry

Thank you.

I will put the fuel pump on line and let you know how it turns out.

A gravity feed tank 18 inches above the needle valve will provide about 0.5 psi of pressure. Not a lot.

Hoyt

Dennis, when you get it all figured out you need to post pictures of your truck.