The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop 427 Anyone?

All the research I've done on hopping up my 250 leads to the conclusion that, yes, a 250 six putting out over 200 horses would be way cool, BUT, and this is a BIG BUT, I can go to the wrecking yard, buy a running big block, freshen it up with rings and bearings, and have a way faster more powerful engine for less money. My '70 truck looks like a big block ought to drop right in, and I already have a 12 bolt rear end, but I do not know if my 3 speed saginaw will bolt up to a big block bell housing. So, guys, help me out hear. Whaddya think?

Bob

I think you'll have a lot better luck finding a 454 than a 427.

I just bought a 74 C10 with a 454 (complete with rod knock) for $550. I'm gonna use the front suspension and a buncha the other parts on my 64. I'm gonna put the 454 motor in the corner of my garage and rebuild it for my race car...maybe a coupla years down the road. I plan to run the 406 in the race car for the next 2 seasons.

The bellhousing should be the same pattern between the I6 and the "twin 4." But I dunno if I'd wanna trust a Saggy behind a rat motor. I'll have a fresh TH400 for sale, but since you're on earth and I'm in Utah, I'm not sure it's possible to ship stuff from here to there.

hth,

I think the 402 was the available big block for pickups in 1970, but it should be no problem to drop any 396/402/427/454 under the hood using mostly factory parts.

I have two 454s, and the better of the two was free. Look around a bit and you should be able to find one pretty cheap too.

If you've seen some of my other posts, I'm sort of an anomaly since my truck is post-1973, but I was adamant about rebuilding it to stock and keeping the 250 inline six with the 3 speed Saginaw trans.

Regaring your scenario, I've pored through beaucoup truck catalogs for '73-'87 GMC and Chevys, and I would tell you that you should have NO trouble finding a 454 engine, they were available every year for that 15 year stretch and there must be a million or two out there in boneyards. Suburbans seemed to have a lot of 'em. Look for the letters Z ('73-'75) S for 1976-'79, and W for 1980-'87 in the VIN code--4th letter for '73-'80 and the 8th character from 1981-'87 will tell you that it is a 454 V-8. In '87 VIN code N designates a 454 with fuel injection, only year that option was available.
I haven't seen a 454 with a manual transmission, but I am sure there were quite a few made because there was a 4 speed transmission available each of those years. I know the 3 speed was standard from 1973 until at least 1984, which was the last year for the 250. There were 4x4s with 3 speed manuals from '73-'77, so there is a good possibility that some of those were 454 V-8s.

The 454 seems to be more readily available than the 427. I do not recall for sure but it seems to me that the 427 and 396 were both better performers than the 454. Is that true or not? The 402 was an available option in 1970, but I do not remember ever knowing anyone who had one in anything. Are they any good?

A 350 was another motor that was available, but blah :rolleyes: I do not want to run something that everybody and their cousin and cousins relatives are running! I want something a bit different, but hopping up a 250 is just not very practical when many stock motors will outperform it unless you go real radical.

I had a 454 in my '67 K/10 suburban, but I had a carb fire and downed the truck. The PO put it in and with no upgrades to the braking system was a nightmare to stop. It would cruise at 80 easy, but had a lot of driveline vibrations and would sometimes beat small parts like U joints into submission.
When I rebuild the sub, I'm gonna put in a 292 built for turbo/propane and lose about 250 ugly V8 pounds.

A 402 is a factory-overbored 396. Available in early 70s. A buddy and I just put one in a '86 Silverado short wheelbase with a TH400 and 3.42 locker rear end. It will fly. I think the 396/402/427 will interchange some parts with 454, but not sure.

chip

Okay -- Thanks for the input guys. As usual it's all good. Sometimes I have to mentally explore some of my options before I commit to a certain direction. I gotta stay with the inline six because anybody can bolt in a big block and go fast. It takes talent to make a six cylinder scream.
Bob

There's no substitute for cubes.. that's why i'm upgrading to a 327..

Rusty Rod, you are right. Nothing replaces displacement like displacement, but I got this hang up about being different. A fast small block is just another small block; a fast big block is just another big block. A screaming hot inline six is seriously cool and will turn more heads at shows, meets, and runs than any V8, even hemi's aren't as cool as a radical inline.
Bob

If you like to be different, go to the 500 caddy. Kid on the 67-72 and his dad put one in, his first drive involved a burnout where the th400 went into third with smoke still rolling. He said his dad smiled the whole time. There is a website for building the caddy engines, but I don't have it marked.

Fred, if I had something like that the state of Oregon would have to issue me my own judge and ticket book
Bob

By the way; Out of curiousity I checked a couple salvage yards and was surprised to find that neither one had a good big block of any size. I did not ask about a rebuilable core.

Let me get this straight, you guys wanna go fast in your truck? Why? Don't you have access to cars that are made to go fast?

Personally I have access to a few Acuras. They will out drive your truck no matter what motor you put into it. Then I have been lucky enough to actually do a little SCCA racing. After I did over 100 in competition in a light tube frame racecar I stopped going fast on the freeway all together.

My truck accelerates fast with the mostly stock 235. I just need some freeway speed. But, I will never understand the need for a high performance (go fast) motor in a truck. Why don't you build a Camaro or Chevelle?

Just wondering.

Tony M, I agree with you, start out with something reasonably suited for fast road work if you wanna go fast.
But these guys are taking hot rods here, a long history of making a mundane vehicle high performance, at least in a straight line.And while I like 6's, there ain't nothing like a big inch American V-8 trobbing under the hood.Most guys I know with built engines do it for bragging rights, they never explore the limits of performance, which is probably good.
Anyway, a few years ago I was working on a friends 68 Camaro, big V-8, lots of power, had mucho fun spinning the tires and slamming gears.My friend finally figured out I was done with his car, but keep making excuses to work on it cause I was having fun.

A litle insight from an old man. I have had 235's, blew 2 of them up. Back in the days when you could buy one for $45.00 overhaul for $120.00. Got tired of getting car beat. Got old enough to drag race. Took different brands of cars and made winners.

Now I drive a Z28 w/vortex fast very fast. My love is trucks all I have owned (except 61 GMC) have been 4X4's Dodge's & GMC big motor's so when it gets rough the tough get going. I love the look of a stock factory looking truck but absolutley love more when a person starts that thing up and it scares the holy doo da out of ya.
popcorn The Truth is Out There (Don't want top speed just want to get to 65mph in a hurry)

P.S. If I want to race I'll drive our stock car we have had for 4 yrs.

I understand. That is why my next redo might be a Corvette or something. I can even see putting a small block in a truck, but this big block talk I don't get.
Here is a project I really wanted. I found the Ebay ad before it sold but didn't have the money. Somebody that did bought it for the buy it now within hours of it going up. I would have bought it if I had been ready.

Ebay Corvette

[img]http://i7.ebayimg.com/02/i/01/3b/f3/56_1.JPG[/img]

Tony M: I restored a 76 Vette. Would I do it again NO. It takes really deeeeeeeeep pockets. Just imagining what it would take for that 65 scares me and I'm fearless. Except my all time favorite car to own if I could have anything would be 1965 Vette Convt. Red w/white interior 4 speed 427/425. popcorn The Truth is Out There (Could get to 65mph reaaaaaaally fast)

The above Corvette is the convertible and it actually came with very decent seats and most interior parts. It needed fiberglass work and a driveline. I would have just put in a generic Chevy driveline and made it a nice runner.

HEY!! What's all this talk about Corvettes? I thought we only speak truck-anese around here!

So, the reason I definitely want some horse power under the hood is because I definitely want some horsepower under the hood!

It's like this; my truck sounds nice, but the 34 year old 250 has over 200 thousand on it and it's REAL tired. A couple weeks ago some kid in a f< > d tried to get me to race. Well naturally I had to back down. Backing down is 100% antithetical to my nature! :mad:

I want a motor that sounds like something is coming to eat you, and will smoke the back tires right off the rims! It's just a question of whether I juice up an inline or use a big block. I am seriously leaning toward juicing up my 250 to the magical 1 horse per inch. I've got it pretty well planned out, so we'll see in the next month or so what my final decision is.

You GUYS ARE COOL :p
Bob

Fleetside,getting 250 HP from a 250 is not a problem, fairly expensive too as compared to a small block Chevy which will give you 300+ HP for 1/2 the money.And the 250 will be kinda lumpy at low speeds in that state of tune.The inline engines are eye catchers and different,but the most bang for the buck always is a small block.

You know Tony, I agree with you in the sense that the 350 is really easy to do a budget build with, BUT all you have is one more 350 in a sea of 350's. A good running and quick inline is exceptional. Like a friend of mine has a 52 sedan with a 261 running at about 200 horses, and it is a real eye catchin' head turner!

Bob

If you want a hotrod 6-cylinder, do yourself a favor and start with the 292. It's much more fixable than the 250, and you won't have to stress it as much. I raced against one on a 1/4 mile dirt track for several years, and he could out-torque my 327 easily. We were running open-wheel Sportsman cars in northern California, and he was a consistent winner, even competing against the V-8's. He spent about twice as much money on a competition buildup as us 8-cylinder guys, though!
Jerry

Fleetside,I got a modified 261, it surprises people, but hey, I drive my neighbors rumpa rumpa V-8 68 Camaro and there ain't no comparison,lol.

Well this thread is certainly about high performance, but there are other reasons to look at bigger motors.

I'm building a 454 because I want to pull a trailer at speed without straining my motor. I expect it will cost a little more than a small block would, but not as much more as a strong inline would cost.

Anybody know where I can get a 409 chevy

409!!! now you're talking about a non cookie cutter engine, but expensive, oh well. But the old 348's look the same, but still kinda expensive to work on, but cheaper than a hot 6.
Oldsub, the 454 is a good choice for hard work, more cubes more power, and lots of parts out there.
But "cookie cutter" engines are all in the eye of the beholder.Most guys use a 350/350 combo cause it's the easy way out.You can buy everything premade and just drop it in, no engineering skills required, don't even need to shift gears once you're done It's a bolt on billet crowd in bikes too, just the trend today ,like big new pu trucks.

Ok guys for us that remember 348's and 409's they was the hottest thing around next to fuel injection vettes. (vettes again) Anyway lets talk 409 more experience. Everybody and their brothers wanted one until they started to blowing them up. Don't get me wrong Mother in law had 64 Impala SS had well over 125,000 when she sold it.

They are very expensive to rebuild, thats why guys got fired up about 427's w/425hp you could buy it right from the factory. 454 has proven to be a really good truck motor, plus many options you can do with it. I do agree if you can get 1hp per cubic inch thats pretty cool especially inliners that can only repesent torque awesome.

Here in the midwest late 60's early 70's it was fun to figure HP to weight. popcorn The Truth is Out There (If I was rich I would sell my 350/340hp for a HEMI )

Well we're getting way off topic, but that's okay. This thread has remained interesting, and much more fun than p*lit*cs

I browsed through a couple issues of Auto Trader recently. The evidence suggests you can buy an older Caddy or Olsmobile with a monster big block, ps, pb, ac, and real cushy seats, dirt cheap if you don't mind a high miler that's all beat up. If a guy went that route, he would have all the parts to build a real cool hot rod truck. Definitely not a "cookie cutter" ride, and not for the "bolt on billet" crowd. We discussed Caddy 500's above, but there are a bunch of others; 390, 425, 429, 472, et, and my recollection of the 455 olds is that they came in two basic configurations; FAST, and FASTER!

So anyway, all this applies to me because professionally I am at a cross roads in my career. I've decided to return to school this fall, so for the next couple years I will be doing everything on the cheap. You can freshen up a 250 for about $300 including a mild cam. I have a Weber carb on it, and I am going to split the manifold soon. So, stock with weber carb, mild cam, and dual exhaust is the way I am going to run it for a couple years. After that I will be making almost twice as much money as I do now, so I will be able to choose based on what I want rather than what I can afford!

Whaddya Think!
Bob
PS
Wouldn't it be cool to put a dual quad 409 in an AD?

How abouts a pontiac? The 350-455 engines are all the same external dimensions. Find a P-350 and swap it in. When you've got more cash, build a monster 455 and it'll be a direct drop-in. The pontiac engines are torque monsters. The 350 in my '67 LeMans makes 400 ft/lbs of torque at 3000 RPM.

I've got a project that's way down the list right now, but I've got most of the parts already. It's a 59 Chevy Carryall, like a panel truck, but with the station wagon windows, 3 seats, etc. It's getting the Caddy 500/turbo 400 swap, along with the seats, steering column, and power accessories from the old Caddy. I'm also installing an independent front suspension, 3/4 ton, to go with the limited-slip Dana type 60 rear end, also 3/4 ton, that's already in it. The front end is being adapted from a mid-70's Chevy truck. The entire front suspension, including the fromt engine mounts, is a bolt-in with just a crossmember change. I'll get rid of the old frame-mounted steering gear and drag link, and install the Caddy variable-rate power steering box in the process. Front disc brakes, and a dual chamber master cylinder, and the thing should stop as well as it goes!
Jerry

Hey HotRod -- That sounds like a GREAT project. Years ago I had a 53 carry all with a 350 horse 327, close ratio 3 speed, and several diffderent sets of gears at different times. That was a way cool ride, especially fun when it was REALLY loud and had 456 butt gears. I never did anything with the suspension except make it real stiff for running in a straight line. Hope you will keep us posted on this deal.
Bob

Oh and by the way Chip; Pontiac 389 and 400 engines are pretty darn hot, but Pontiacs are not cheap like the old caddys and oldsmobiles. Also it occurs to me that there is a mistique about caddys that others don't have.
Bob