The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area The Electrical Bay Ignition shorts?

Had a perfect evening. Drove the truck to Wichita for a blues concert at the zoo, and really enjoyed the ride home in the evening with the tires humming their tune on the Interstate and the 230 making it's own song. Get up this a.m., change the oil, replace a burnt out turn signal bulb, and replace the battery ends. Clean the glass, sweep the floors, etc. Go in the house, come out a half hour later, and when I hit the key...zip, nada, zero. Still have lights, but the key won't make the starter do it's job. The amp gauge is pegged out in the dead zone when I hit the key. Jump it across the solenoid, and it fires right up, but the amp gauge is still going nuts, bouncing around like a cat in a bubble bath. Shut everything down, pull the plug off the back of the ignition switch, and everything goes back to normal. Battery is new, cables are also, as is nearly everything else on the truck.
Should I be suspect of the ignition switch or the voltage regulator? Maybe a direct short in one of the wires from the ignition to the solenoid. Never had one act like this before, and electrics are my weak suit. Thanks for the help.
Tramp

I always suspect the last thing I worked on ... might have done something while replacing those 'battery ends'?

Bill

I find it hard to believe that with nearly 2 dozen folks looking at this post, that the only information anyone can offer is the thought that I may have done something wrong when I changed out the battery cable ends. I'm brain damaged, but not brain dead. I've never had a vehicle of any sort act like this. Everything was fine one moment, and when it went bad, it went bad in a flash. No indication that there was anything wrong. I've been through my service manual several times, and nothing is mentioned about these symptoms, so I guess I'll just spend some more time chasing a gremlin.

Tramp,

Maybe those two dozen folks looking at the post were trying to learn something, not diagnose your problem.

Bill's comment made perfect sense. If it worked before you worked on it then maybe your working on it made it not work!

It's rare for something like this to happen out of the blue. Give us more info. If your rig has a solenoid starter and you are jumping the power from big BATT lug to 'S' terminal and the things starts then it's a ignition switch deal...maybe!

The nutty ammeter is trying to tell you something. Most loads on your '64 should be fused so it it's a dead short somewhere, something should blow.

What do you mean when you say pulling the plug off the back of the ignition switch and reinstalling it gets things back to normal?

If you can go with the 'cause and effect' theory for a minute, think back about where you were digging around when you did the battery cables. Could you have pinched or ripped or busted or left anything dangling.

Dig around some more and try to see a pattern to the problem, you're smarter than the truck.

Stuart

yes, in my experience, 99% of the time [well, maybe only 90%] when something acts broken right after you [I] work on it, the first thing to do is go back over what you did very methodically and find what you did to cause the problem - it's really very rare that things happen out of the blue immediately after someone worked on the very system that breaks .... "if it ain't broke, fix it til it is"

that's not saying you're brain dead, it's just the facts, we can all inadvertantly do things without realizing the error .... maybe you just sparked something when you disconnected the battery - maybe the ign sw plug was loose when you first started it and that arced something - I doubt there's anyone here [out of the dozen] who can say "oh yeah, that's such and such, it happened to me too", which is why there's nothing in the service manual - you've got an unusual electrical problem

Bill

Yup, Electric gremlins are a BEOTCH!...you havent stated the condition of your wirin harness NEW/OLD..you are lookin at SO MANY "IFS" right now that any decent interpretation will be almost impossible.
I would as stated above ...start at the last point of entry ..
seems like you disturbed something that was cool for a long time till you moved it.
NOW you have a gremlin ..wich if you just use common sence can be found NP.
I would personally start with a freind in the dark, he/she watches as you push an pull on the wires at the battery an work from there an look for a spark.
NO LUCK?? time for the meter an start searchin wires ...you have a short/bad ground goin on somewhere.
Tim

I would guess one of 2 things. Either something wrong in the ignition switch or a dead short in the wire going to the starter. I would first unplug the ignition switch. Figure out which wire goes from the ignition switch to the solonoid. Get about 10ft. of 12 gauge primary wire. Hook one end to the + side of the battery.
Strip about 1/4 inch insulation off the other end of the wire and carefully take it inside of the cab. Touch the wire that goes from the ignition switch to the starter. If the engine cranks, you have eliminated a short in the wire from the switch to the solenoid. If it pops and throws a heavy spark, you a short in the wire somewhere. Quite often the grommet is missing where the wire harness goes through the firewall and the insulation rubs. You could have wiggled the wire just right to cause a short. If you have no short in the wire, plug the harness back on to the ignition switch. Disconnect the wire from the ignition switch from the solenoid at the starter. Now try moving the key to the start position. The gauge should only show a slight discharge from the coil. If it pegs the ammeter, something could be wrong internally in the starter switch. Before you replace the starter switch, buzz out (that is test the wire with your hot wire from the battery) the wire that goes to the coil and make sure it doesn't have a dead short. My guess would be that you are going to fund a short in the wire going from the ignition switch to the solenoid.

Hey folks, thanks for getting me going in the right direction. Now at least I have a place to start. The truck has been completely rebuilt over that past year and a half, and MOST, not all of the wiring is new. Wherever it's going thru the firewall the grommets have been replaced, just to prevent this kind of problem from being an issue.
The battery ends were replaced only because I had a brand new set laying on the bench that had better bolts in them and I was thinking it would provide a better bite on the battery and look better under the hood. Just one of those things where I had a few extra minutes to clean up the ol' girl and do some prevetative maintenance.. And after that, and cleaning the glass, changing the oil, sweeping her out and all, she repays my kindness with this kind of stuff. Ungrateful witch!
I'm like most of you. I realize that whatever the problem is, it's quite likely to be something minor. Just have to find it and fix it. I shouldn't be too upset. After that great ride home from the concert, at least she decided to shoot craps parked in the garage instead of along the side of the Interstate around 11:00 at nite. See...there's a good side to part of this already.Again,thanks for the help. I'll let you know what I find.
Tramp

Tramp,

I have enclosed a link to some wiring diagrams for your truck. The site lists a '63 schematic that is very similar to your '64. In the diagram, it shows a second wire connected at the positive battery terminal that goes to the horn relay. I don't know if this could have any effect on your problem if it were left off.

This era truck was loaded with bulkhead connectors for the wiring, and those sometimes get funky and loose. Good luck and keep us posted.

http://rmcavoy.freeshell.org/Truck_gauges.html

Stuart

Still looking. Replaced the ignition switch, still have the same problem. Noticed with the truck just sitting, and the ignition switch in the off postion, that I still have lights and all. But if I step on the brakes, the amp gauge pegs out in the dead zone until I get off the brakes. Somewhere...there is a dead short, and I would have thought that a fuse would have popped, but there is no fuse for the ignition on the fuse panel. I'm just thinking out loud here, but could there be a wire that is always hot, such as the brakes that is related to the ignition? I'm probably lucky there hasn't been a fire yet, and I don't want to burn out my Pertronix or anything else before I find this gremlin. It's just a machine, and if a man built it, it can be fixed, but in the meantime, I'm not the best of company. Even the Dawg won't have anything to do with me. Thanks to all for the help.

Were you stepping on the brake when you were trying to start it? If so, it may have been a short in the brake light circuit all along. Try unpluging the wire harness from the stop light switch and then step on the brakes. I'm not sure where 63 Chev trucks had fuses. The older ones were on the firewall, but I think they had moved them by 63. It probably uses an old SFE type fuse which is easily diagnosed good or bad. Maybe someone else can help with the location of the stop light fuse. There is a good chance you have a short from the stoplight switch on back, but you have to eliminate one thing at a time.

see inliners
tech tip
electrical shorts
http://www.inliners.org/

SUCCESS!!
After several sleepless nights and lots of hair pulling, I finally found the short. It may not make sense to most, but it was the battery cable itself that was shorting out. About 6" from the starter, there was a dark spot on the cable that must have either been crushed or burnt at one time or another, and it would allow enough voltage to pass through to run the lights, but when the higher demand of the starter was placed on it, it showed as a dead short. I must have moved it just enough to cause the problem when I changed out the cable ends. Been a learning experience, and I want to take a moment to tell everyone thanks for the help and encouragement in getting the ol' gal back up and running. Hope next time she decides to misbehave it's something a lot easier to deal with. Thanks again.
Tramp

good to hear, always a rush when a gremlin is squashed
and now you know why I say always recheck recent work when a new problem jumps up right after

Bill

Is it possible something is stuck in the voltage regulator like the cut out circut? I have a 1950 216 with pertronix and a foot starter and the same symptoms