The Stovebolt Site Forums The Parking Lot Big Bolts My truck is suicidal

Hey fellas me again,

My truck is still not working, this time not at all. Here is my 'current' problem, I drove it about 10 miles and it ran great, especially after its recent tune up, if you recall my thread about the engine missing. After it sat for a few hours it would not start at all. I towed it on to the road and got it running by kick starting it. I drove it home noticing severe random missing and poor performance. No backfires. I struggled to get it the last few miles home till it finally died in the drive way, I rolled it to a stop, and restarted it, it idled poorly. While idleing poorly I got out and opened the hood, nothing looked abnormal. It idled so poorly that it died. I did not immediatlely switch off the ignition til I saw smoke pouring from the cab. Then I switched off the ignition. Apparently the green wire from ignition switch to coil cooked itself, bad.

Thinking this was the cause of the truck running poorly I replaced this wire, and several others to be on the safe side, the green wire from ignition to coil, the green wire from ignition to resistor, the brown wire from resistor to ignition. I put this all back together and turned the ignition on and tried starting the truck, it would not start and the same hot wire problem returned. This time the green wire from ignition to coil was hot, the wire from coil to distrobutor, and it smoked the points mounting plastic.

My truck also has some abnormal wiring on it, first no generator or voltage regulator. It has an alternator with one heavy gauge wire to the battery, thats it. My ignition switch is not original. I have a wire from the battery to my ignition switch and there is a wire from the ignition switch to the fuse panel and lighting panel, which is their only source of power. It also has wires for the turn signals coming off of it, the brown wire to the resisto and green wires to the resistor and coil, lastly the purple wire to the starter.

So, what is causing the smoking wires? What should I start with as a culprit? Since this stuff isn't original, My book isn't helping much.

Thanks,in advance.

asilverblazer,

Holy smokes! I read your previous posts. I think you have several things happening together which are compounded by the poor condition of your wiring.

Your original complaint about the poor performance seemed to be related to bad fuel or water in the fuel. I think this is the root of your current problem with the truck not running right.

The fried wiring is a separate problem. I made a cartoon of wiring based on your statements above and it seems like you have too many wires from ignition switch to coil etc.

It's hard to know where to start when you don't know where you're at...I would assume your truck is 12 volt with a solenoid starter. This means a START/RUN ignition switch.

If you are using a ballast resistor then your bypass circuit can be in the solenoid OR the key switch. It looks like yours is through the START contact on the key switch.

This should mean two wires from key switch to ballast resistor...one wire (RUN) on the key side of the resistor, and one wire (START) on the coil side of the resistor.

From the coil side of the resistor to the coil is another single wire and the same from - side of the coil to the distributor.

If engine died and the key was left ON (RUN) and..the points happened to be closed, power will flow through the wiring, coil and points. After a prolonged time, this can heat and melt stuff, especially if the wires aren't sized properly.

I think I would investigate the bum fuel/plugged filter issue again, then try to sort out the wiring. It is possible to burn your truck to the ground when you don't have proper wiring and protection.

Stuart

12 volts? Yes, that I know. The ignition switch seems to be the type you describe but using the 'start' part of it does not function, I have to switch it to 'on' or 'run', then use the foot pedal.

I know the carb is getting plenty of feul too, plus this secondary problem came on what I consider suddenly, it ran great then this.

I think my starter is original.

Ballast resistor? The orignal one on the firewall looks like.

The wires that melted were original, so I don't think they would be undersized, at least for their intended function.

Holy SMOKES... Funny.

asilverblazer,

So it sounds like you have a stomp starter with a ON/OFF key switch. If this is right, there should be only one wire from ignition switch to key side of ballast resistor. Another wire should run from a little bypass terminal on the stomp starter switch to the coil side of the ballast resistor. Does this sound right.

The very least I would do right now is install new points and condenser and repair the wiring. I am surprised that leaving the key on did so much damage so quickly.

Your previous post mentioned dirty, water laden fuel. Could this still be your issue...it sure sounds like it. A can of fuel additive will break the surface tension of the water in the tank and allow it to at least pass through the jets and not leave you high and dry.

Stuart

It has good fresh fuel in it, I think my only fuel issue was maybe a plugged fuel filter. I think I am supposed to have the on/off key switch but it was at some point replaced by a on/off/start key switch, While still using the old stomp starter. I have repaired the wiring the points were new, melted now though.

Not sure about the wire from the resistor to the bypass terminal. Is this under the truck near the starter pedal, or at the ignition switch. Where exactly is it supposed to go to or from, because I don't think I have this one right.

is the coil 6V or 12V?

asilverblazer,

I have a tendency to confuse the issue...I hope I'm not doing that here. Your system is 12 volts, so your ignition system needs to RUN with reduced voltage, about 9 volts or so.

This is accomplished by means of a coil with a internal resistance OR a white ceramic looking deal screwed to your firewall called a ballast resistor.

When you START the engine, the resistor is bypassed so your ignition gets the whole enchilada, voltage wise. If your key switch only has OFF/ON, then the bypass is done through the little switch that gets mashed when you stomp the pedal on the floor.

IF..you have a ballast resistor, it has a terminal at each end. On one end, a wire should attach from the key switch. On the other end a wire should run to the + side of the coil.

The bypass wire does just that, it bypasses the ballast resistor which means it could connect right to the + side of the coil or it could connect to the coil side of the ballast resistor.

I guess all I'm trying to point out is that your truck should not run with full voltage to the ignition UNLESS you have a coil that is marked "Does Not Require External Resistor".

Frying wires as quick as it did tends to make me think you have no resistance in your ignition circuit. This could also cook your points prematurely resulting in possible problems.

I hope I haven't confused you more.

Stuart

Yes I have a ballast resistor then. And possibly its not wired correctly, thus sending too much juice through the system?

I think you are correct, the ignition resistor is not wired correctly.

Its difficult to know exactly how your wiring is set up from the description, but I suspect your problem is how it is wired.

If I understand correctly the wiring didn't smoke until you left the ignition on with the motor not running. I'd bet the points were closed and therefore basically putting your ignition circuit straight to ground. That is what smoked the wires.

The motor didn't run well because the points were fried by the full 12 volts on them. You have a full 12 volts because you don't have a properly wired ignition resistor. I'm guessing here, but based on your description I think that is what you have.

That sounds pretty reasonable to me, how do I know if its wired properly with out the smoke telling me so?

This is the 1955 4400 in your signature right? I was reading through it and you said that you rewired it to a safer condition?

I more or less was referring to rewiring the lights to safer condition.

It sounds like my ignition switch is not wired correctly, right? If that is the case why the sudden change, again it ran great after the tune up, and suddenly it quit.

*Recap*
Truck was running fine for entire time in my possesion (approx. 2 years, and I dorve it for about 200 miles) with no real mechanical modifications, til one day it started randomly missing on long up hill grades. I did a full tune up on it, points, cap, rotor, wires, plugs, timing, carb rebuild, new fuel filter. After adjusting carb, and timing it ran great, no more missing, and better performance. This lasted about 1 month/20 miles... ...ish, Then it refused to start and well, here we are at the start of this topic. I have qualms about if the ignition was wired incorrectly from the start, why no problems til now?

asilverblazer,

I think this was mentioned a little earlier. If the points are getting a full 12 volts (actually more like 13.5), the contact surfaces will degrade prematurely and can result in poor performance and hard, or no starting.

A wiring diagram for a 55/2nd rig shows a the more sophisticated START/RUN ignition switch which accompanies the solenoid starter.

This system does use a ballast resistor, which you said you have, and routes the bypass circuit through the key switch so it automatically gets full voltage on START, but when the key is released to RUN, power is routed through the resistor.

I thought you said your truck had a simple ON/OFF ignition switch and a stomp starter. Is this what you have?

It isn't for sure that this wiring issue is the cause of your problems. Each of these things need to be corrected so you can get back to square one. If everything is temporary with dangling, smoking wires, it's hard to tell where to begin.

Once I got the wiring under control, I wouldn't hesitate to stick a brand new coil in the rig. This could be part of the problem.

Stuart

Atomarc, he has a start/run ignition but his truck originally had a stomp starter with an on/off switch. At one time the ignition switch was replace with the start/run switch but the starter remained as foot operated. So he has to turn the switch to run and then stomp the starter. Does that clear it up?

JDL has got the situation right, and I have considered a new coil. I think I will put a new ignition switch in too, then I will KNOW how to wire it up, the one in it is anybodys guess, I suppose. I can't even determine exactly what trerminal is what on it, I can only put the wires back where I find them.

How does this sound, One of those doohickeys from Petronix, that eliminates the points altogether, a new ignition switch, then a new coil. It sounds like a great plan to me regardless of the truth to that statement.

That should be fine. I asked about a Pertronix and everyone who responded said good things about them, so do that, get a new switch and coil, rewire it like it is supposed to be, and report back. You might even get some new wiring and replace the stuff you have on it now, just to eliminate the chance of melting your $90 pertronix.

I think I'll put that part on last.

Any news?

I'm buying parts this afternoon. I'll either install them tonight or tomorrow. I'm hoping for the best. On a bright note, it can't get worse than not running at all.

True. It might be hard to get that switch off. I know it'll be hard to get mine off because of all the wiring from the 8-track and radio, plus the 12v booster and the speakers.

In that regard mine will be a breeze.

Yeah, if you're flexible. I wonder if it is possible that there's a short in the wiring somewhere or some of the insulation fell off and that is what is melting the wiring.

It lives to see another day, put a coil, condenser, points and ignition switch in and it runs. I didn't drive it though, didn't want to push my luck that far.

So my next question, would a failing coil or condenser cause the missing, sputtering problem?

asilverblazer,

I would answer YES to all your questions. Any of those ignition components could cause those problems.

I personally feel that the coil and condenser are go/no-go items, but other folks see it differently. Because the points are the working 'switch', I would tend to think devastated contact surfaces on these would be the prime culprit for your problem...what did the old ones look like?

The condenser give the points longevity. The coil is potted and usually any failure is not intermittent, but permanent.

Congratulations on your success...happy motoring!


Stuart

The points 'were' new and appeared new with the exception of the melted/burnt housing, from leaving the switch on with the points closed.

My Dad seemed to recall an old Chevelle of his that the coil would give out once it got hot... Might have been the case for me too, the first time I noticed the missing, it was warm out and the engine was thouroughly warmed up. Then I did the tune up, and the most recent occurence of the problem it was really warm out, but the engine was initially cold then warmed up, and the further I drove it the worse it got.

Dunno, hope its OK now.

I had a coil on an old Minneapolis Moline tractor that would work fine when cold. But as soon as it warmed up, it would begin acting up. Eventually, the motor would quit altogether.

Yep, that can happen, I don't remember what causes it but something to do with the heat expanding something.(I think) At least you can enjoy your truck now and don't leave the key on!!!