The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop 235 double pulley

Can anybody tell me if a damper with a double pulley will fit in an Advance Design Truck? I have a 51 half ton and am building a 235 that came out of a 1957 truck. The damper is wobbly, so the rubber is breaking down. If I go to replace it, I would like to install a double pulley so that in the future, I might be able to install air-conditioning or a power steering pump. Any help would be appreciated.

Todd

OK,

I have to add to my question. I am now told that my 1957 235 had a press fit damper. I found a source that can supply me a double pulley damper from a 292 that is machined to fit a 235, but the crank needs to be drilled and tapped. If anyone has done this, what size bolt did you drill and tap that crank for?

Thanks again.

Todd

I'm running a two-groove modified 250 cid harmonic balancer on my 235. It was purchased from Buffalo Enterprises (Steve) and required the use of a Felpro quick sleeve on the seal surface as well as balancing. I was a bit skeptical of the suggestion of getting it balanced but after seeing the material removed to get it down to .3 of a gram I understood what was meant.

The balancer is drawn on by using a small block Chevy balancer bolt available at most parts suppliers. I don't recall the exact drill sizes but would caution you to only go about 5/8" deep. My crank drilled very easily with a hand held power drill. I used a longer fine threaded stud to draw the balancer down.

BTW....the balancer and balancing was right at $240.00. No bargain but worth every penny to run a/c, p/s, and an alternator.

Dave

Dave,
What kind of pully width did you have? The 57 motor seems to have a narrower (3/8th ???) belt. The balancer I am looking at is at the damper dudes. He can put the double pully on a balancer for a 292 chevy. I believe it will be about $125. I figure that If I have to buy a new damper, I should get one that I can use for air-conditioning. Did you add power steering as well?

I used a 7/16" NF bolt to pull on the Buffalo-modified late Chevy six pulley/dampener on my 261. The bolt was a SBC part from ARP. Not a real challenge, as Dave says above.

Hoyt

Like Dave and Hoyt, I too bought a two groove harmonic balancer which was modified by Buffalo (although his given name is Steve, he actually prefers to be known as Buffalo) of Buffalo Enterprises in Arlington, WA. I haven't yet installed this pully on my Chevy 261 engine but here are three tips provided by Buffalo relating to this pully. 1) I (meaning Buffalo) use a speedy sleeve on new pully. 2) It is best to drill and tap the front of the crank so you don't have to beat the damper on with a hammer. 3) If the metal cover front seal retainer is not bolted on yet, drill the cover holes out a little and install the cover with the bolts loose. Press the damper on and use it to center the seal. Then tighten the bolts on the metal cover.

I wanted a dual belt system to allow me to drive an A/C compressor and my alternator without having to have the same belt drive both units. I also wanted to have a two groove water pump pulley (perhaps more for aesthetics) so that one belt would connect the balancer, water pump and A/C compressor and a second belt would connect the balancer, water pump and alternator. The question was, what could I use for the dual groove water pump pulley? Once again, Buffalo came to the rescue by advising me that "all good Chevy engines should have at least one Ford part" and told me to locate a Ford pulley with the casting number, C8AE-8509A. These pulleys were used on Ford 390 and larger engines in the late 60s. Knowing what I needed and locating this part were two entirely different issues. I checked with a couple of large SoCal Ford dealers only to find that the part was "obsolete". I then attempted to locate one at local wrecking yards but found that none had Ford vehicles from the 60s, let alone one with a 390 or larger engine. I then resorted to eBay and, as luck would have it, I found exactly what I needed. This is a 7 inch pulley with the correct offset to match the balancer below. I can't say that it's necessary to run a dual groove water pump pulley, but it sure looks better than the alternative of running one of the belts directly from the balancer and skipping the upper water pump pulley.

Buffalo could cut a 3/8 or 1/2" groove. I went with the 1/2" which works fine with my adaptor plate mounted early style water pump and a/c compressor. If you note by my pictures in the Webshots album, I fabricated my own alternator mount which sandwiches under the thermostat housing and allows me to run ONLY one belt over the waterpump. I saw no reason for placing extra stress on the pump bearings by doubling up on the belts. The a/c compressor runs directly off the HB and I haven't had any problems with excessive belt wear. To date I haven't felt the need to add the Toyota power steering which will run off the 2nd groove on the a/c compressor.

As Vetteguy pointed out, getting your belt alignment dialed in is an issue. That's just one of the reasons why I went with the adaptor plate mounted pump with the pressed on pulley. It lines up perfectly with the balancer and addresses the inherent issues that pop up when you use a later model 235 in your pre-55 truck. Being that the 2 groove balancer protrudes to the front more than a single groove, and being able to run a larger diameter, multi-blade fan to handle the extra engine cooling, I found that the so-called "short water pump" and it's lower mounting position created fan interference problems with the balancer. I even went so far as to fabricate my own WP pulley but scrapped the short WP when it didn't solve all the cooling issues and created a whole new set. Running the adaptor plate and the early pump addressed and solved all these issues and allowed me to run a full 15" 6 blade fan.

I genuinely think that the engine clearance issues as well as the single groove HB, sway a lot of folks towards dropping in the SBC. Addressing and correcting these issues will make your 6 cylinder truck a pleasure to drive and an attention-getter at the shows.

Dave

Dave,

I have a hard time figuring out your webshots because there is a grey engine a red engine and the newest??? iteration looks like a metallic grey. Is that the newest one? I go back and find your pictures of your "spare" engine find as well.

It looks like you mounted the alternator on the passenger side. and the compressor on the drivers side. Are you planning to run a belt from the compressor down to a power steering pump?

Where did you get the alternator mounting bracket?

Where did you get the waterpump relocation plate? Is that a pre 55 water pump?

Here is the pump and pully I have now.
1957 235 waterpump view

Here is the block without the pump.
1957 235 block before water pump

You spoke of belt alignment. My reservation about your adapter plate is that it would push the pully groove forward by some amount. Wouldn't this put it out of alignment with the balancer pulley?

Thanks guys for all the replies

The grey engine is my original replacement engine that came in the core truck and I fitted it with the adaptor plate and early pump.

The orange and later hammered-grey engine is my 60 tricked out engine, also with the adaptor plate and early pump that I am currently running in my 54 truck.

I fabricated my own pass side alternator mount and the P/S pump will run off the 2nd groove on the compressor pulley. This configuration keeps the accessories low on the engine and basically out of the line-of-sight.

The information on the adaptor plate is in my album...you will need to click on "full size" to be able to read all the installation instructions and ordering information.

If you note on the adaptor plate mounted pump, it is located higher on the face of the block....this additional height helps with centering the fan on the radiator and adding a larger aftermarket fan.

The adaptor plate early pump lines up perfectly with the harmonic balancer. The plate is 1/8" thick.

Dave