The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop Problems with transmission and axle? EDITED!!! CHECK NOW!!! EDITED AGAIN!!!

Now anyone feel free to correct me if im wrong but even if the clutch is frozen (engaged) but the transmission is in neutral, the engine should still be able to start or turn over freely, heck even if the transmission was stuck in a gear, and the rear tires were SAFELY jacked up in the air, the engine would still be able to turn over freely (unless of coarse the problem is in the engine).

sounds like its time to get out the drill and drill out the rusted screws in the transmission access panel on the floor of the cab. Getting that out of the way would certainly make diagnosing/working on the problem a 100% easier.

You could also see if the trans is stuck in a gear buy jacking up both rear tires, and with the help of your brother or whoever is willing to lend a hand, and try to spin both rear tires in the same direction, as if the vehicle was moving forward/reverse. If they both move freely rotate in the same direction than the trans is free.

OK, If that's the case(someone please tell me if he's right!) then if I go outside and do what I did before, the engine should turn over? And my clutch SHOULDN'T be bad because when the rear end was jacked up, and the clutch wasn't disengaged, both wheels spun in opposite, but with it engaged, only one spun?

When a rear is jacked up, the wheels will spin in opposite directions because of the spider gears in the carrier inside the housing. This won't cause the driveshaft to rotate until you either hold the other wheel steady or turn it in the same as your turning the other one.



Id would first follow everyone elses advice and disconnect the linkage at the transmission and move the levers directly on the transmission to their neutral positions as described above by a few of our fellow bolters. Once the levers are in neutral spin both rear wheels in the same direction (or 1 wheel with the other held in place), it shouldn't take much effort if the trans is truely in neutral. Once you are sure the trans IS in neutral (but for safe measure id SAFELY raise the rear wheels off the ground) you can try to turn the engine over, even if the clutch is stuck in its engaged position but the trans is in neutral you should have no problem turning over the engine (as long as everything is good with the engine and the starting system.

But you're forgetting.....My transmission is stuck in gear. It won't come out of gear, no matter what I do. I took the linkage off at the shift box and tried to get it out there. NO LUCK. Took the linkage off at the transmission and tried to get it out of gear there with a hammer, and then a pry bar. NO LUCK. I think my starter may be bad, accounting for the unhealthy grinding noise it makes. But then again my engine may be stuck. I can't wait for Koolkar to be better so he can help me!!! He told me that when he came down he'd see if we could get it running. It'd sure be a lot easier to tell what's going on with him here!

is your truck a opened or closed drive shaft?

It's closed.

P.S. How come your signature says you have a 1954 235 powerglide with a manual transmission? I thought that powerglide was an automatic.

Did you get the flywheel cover off yet to inspect the clutch?

NO. If you're talking about the one that you access through the floor panel, my screws have become one with it and I can't get them out yet. If there's one that you can access from under the truck, PLEASE TELL ME!

On the bottom of the bell housing in back of the oil pan there is a access cover to the bottom of the flywheel and clutch package, it should be held on with 2 screws.

THANKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well, I got all of them loose, except for ONE! Do you guys think it would help to heat the screw to loosen it with a propane torch? I sprayed it with pb blaster and hit it with a hammer the best I could using the screw driver because the exhaust is in the way and nothing worked.

on what the, the access cover on the bottom of the fly wheel or the access cover on the floor of the cab

On the access panel on the bottom of the flywheel. There was 4 screws, and the last one is stripping.

heat may help. are they slotted screws? With a old truck you may want to invest in some screw outs. they can make working on rusted screws a bit easier. Soak the screw in pb blaster or whatever you prefer and then try using a screw out. Sometimes your luck, sometimes your not, thats where either a dremel type tool or a drill comes into play.

something like these
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00952155000P?vName=Tools&keyword=easy+out
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00952157000P?vName=Tools&keyword=easy+out

Yep, they're slotted. It would come out if I had one BFSD(Big Freaky Screw Driver) that's blade was big enough to cover the whole screw slot but I don't. So I'll look into that.

Do you know where to buy screw outs or are the dremels what you were talking about?

well sears sells individual ones and id imagine home depot or lowes also carries them and can't forget your local hardware stores either. dremels can be purchased in a number of places as well from walmart to target to home improvement and hardware stores. Even harbor freight if you have one near you as they are not the dremel brand but a cheaper equivalent.

if all you have is smaller screw drivers, id also invest in larger flat head and phillips head screw drivers. Using a smaller flat head may be the reason its stripping out and why it won't turn out.

check out harbor freight for cheap but decent tools, also various size screw driver sets can be purchased from many different places for around $20

here is the link to harbor freights website in case you wanted to check it out
http://www.harborfreight.com/


also if you have a sears near you, you can never go wrong with craftsman tools, if you break on they will replace it
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00947155000P?vName=Tools&cName=Hand+Tools%2C+General+Purpose&keyword=screw+drivers

I have a big screw driver. It's just not big enough. This is roughly the size of the slot in the screw in actual size: ____
Here is the size of the screw driver blade: ___
I'll check out the links.

I find Vice Grips to do the trick if nothing else will.

I already tried those. They just slid off.

Guess you were right! Took a torch to it and burnt off all of the dirt while I was at it. Hit it some, then more of the torch. Finally got the vise grips on good and it turned! Got it off and then the hole in the cover started leaking. I suppose it is a drain hole. Anyway, when I got it off, there was some dirty oil-water and insulation. Not supposed to be there, right? Also, what should I look for when I see if the clutch is working?

I guess that I answered my own question. There's the flywheel, a rubber looking disc which I suppose is the clutch, and that's all I can see. When it's not pushed in, there's no gap, but when it is, there's a gap. So the clutch IS working right. So my engine is stuck. , And the transmission stuck in gear. ,

Look at it this way... diagnosis is progress.

Guess you're right, but then when I look at it this way(How am I ever going to fix this!?) it doesn't make me mad or frustrated, but sad. One more thing, is it possible that the FLYWHEEL and not something in the engine is rusted? And someone mentioned that I should take a pry bar to the flywheel a couple weeks ago. Is that safe, meaning I won't break anything off?

The idea behind using the prybar on the flywheel is for leverage ot turn the crank over. The flywheel being rusted won't prevent the engine from turning over, unless it's rusted to the clutch linings. You should be ok doing that, the flwheel gear is made from some pretty tough stuff.

before you try to rotate the engine at all, remove all the spark plugs and spray wd-40 or some other penetrating oil down in each of the cylinders (and not to much were you flood the cylinder but not to little that it doesn't reach all the way around the piston and rings) and let it sit for a day or two or even a week, spraying a small amount each day. Then vary slowly and very carefully rotate the crank shaft.


as for the transmission, if it is the same one that would be in a 52, i have a spare 52 transmission laying around that turns freely and doesn't bind, your welcome to have it for free plus the cost to ship it (transmissions are a bit heavy and i don't have the extra cash to be handing out at the moment). This is all if you don't get your trans working and you have someone that would be able to help you install it.


Another note on the trans as i don't know if anyone mentioned this but the first lever on the side of the transmission must be in the neutral position (middle) in order for the second lever to move in either direction and vis-versa. you may also have to turn the trans to get it to slide into some gears. just making sure thats all.

Longbox55, thanks. Drummin, I put about the last 1/3 of my pb blaster can into it(didn't need it because there was nothing else to use it on at the time, I got another one a few days later) and that's been about 2 weeks ago. From trying to turn the pulley at the front of the engine, I couldn't. Thanks for the offer! You're the second one to offer up a transmission. Ron(WE BE OLD) has one that I believe he said is the exact year. And he lives in Indianapolis and said that he would pay shipping. So if my transmission IS bad(Koolkar said that he MAY be able to come down in a few weeks, and if my brother looks at the truck again sometime before that, he might be able to tell too.) then I will ask Ron and if not possible I would very gladly take your offer! IF it would work. Which it SHOULD?


Also, when I do try to turn the crank, probably with the flywheel, does it matter which way I turn it? Towards driver or passenger side?

Also, I DO have someone that would be able to help. My neighbor and his kid(my brother's friend) work on cars all the time and my brother helps them. So I should be able to get them to help.

Towards the passenger side as veiwed from the bottom.

AHA! I knew I was doing it backwards! Oh well, I'll try that tomorrow.

You probably didn't hurt anything.

jdl: it won't matter now. Just try to get it to turn a little either way. If it moves you can actually move it back and forth....you know, working it both ways until you get it to make a full complete turn.
As for PBblaster in the cyl. I think thats is going in the right direction but I would rather see you pour some automatic tranny fluid or some diesel fuel, or some marvel mystery oil in the cylinders and let it set for a week! Stovebolters, including myself, usuallys start with the easiest stuff but if it needs to soak for more than a day or so you may as well go with the fuel,marvel oil,. Those would be the easiest and most econmical for you. That way it could set until Koolkar gets there and I bet...I just bet it will turn. I just got that feeling. I also have the feeling your tranny is OK to. We will see and time will tell !!!

So you want me to use oil or tranny fluid? I've got Valvoline out in my mom's blazer that I had left over from topping off the engine in the '54. I've also got tranny fluid too. Anyway, thanks guys. I'm wondering how that insulation(I think it was from the truck because it was in that stringy form like the stuff in the headliner.) got into the flywheel/clutch space.

Also how much should I put in the engine cylinders?

If spraying lube, about a 6/10 second spray in each cylinders.

I'll be that wasn't insulation in there. Most likely, some varmint made a nest in there, might have used insulation scavenged from another part of the truck to make it, though.

Yeah, but I'm wondering HOW it got in there? With that cover on, there's no way it got in there unless it crawled through the drain hole no bigger than this 0. Unless, someone at one time took the tranny out and messed with it, leaving the cover off to the flywheel, so that something got in there, but it doesn't look like it's been taken out.

Also, I already put oil down the cylinders. Not much.

There's actually 2 different open holes further up on the bellhousing that a critter could get into without too much trouble. You'ld be surprized at where a mouse or other smal rodent can squeeze into to make a home.

JDL: lets keep it simple for now. If you have already put BPblaster in the cylinders go get some diesel fuel and pour about a 6 or 8oz in each cylinder. Thats enough to make sure it covers the tops of the pistons. Let it set for about a week then try to get it to turn from under the truck using a BIG screw driver or pry bar on the flywheel. If the engine is truly stuck it will take some pretty stong effort to break it loose even though its soaked for some time. Once it moves just keep working it back and forth a little at a time until you get it to make a full turn. Once thats accomplished squirt some oil or WD 40 down in it and turn it s few more times. Once its loose you will then need to drain all of it out of the oil pan and put in some new oil before trying to start the truck.

All the strings you found in the clutch area was put there by rats.