The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop Frozen motors? Its colder than usual here...

Some years we don't get any snow at all, and hardly see temperatures under 30. We've had snow off and on the last several days, and tonight's low is supposed to be 15.

I've checked the antifreeze in all my running trucks, and believe they are good to around zero, but I'm wondering what experience others have had with motors getting cold.

Anyone willing to admit they have lost a motor to coolant freezing? If so, how cold was it and what did you expect the antifreeze to protect against?

I once left a car running all night because I was afraid it wouldn't stand the cold...

OldSub, back in '83 or so I had a '66 Fjord 1/2 ton with a big v-8 in it. We're not used to really cold weather down here and one night the temp dropped to the middle or low teens. Everything was shut down because plumbing all over was frozen solid. They don't build down here for really low temps either. I went out to check on my truck as I remembered it didn't have a drop of anti-freeze in it, just straight water. I turned the key and, nothing. I called a freind to give me a jump start. I thought the battery was dead. We jumped it and it turned over but made a terrible screetching noise. The water in the radiator, block & water pump was frozen solid. I took the fan belt off and we got the engine running. I heated some water and started pouring in on/in the radiator. We'd jump the engine & let it run for a few minutes to thaw the block.
I was waiting to see water running out of the radiator or block at any time. When the water pump thawed, I put the belt back on and kept on running the engine every once in a while. Even a freeze plug which I pounded back in after it leaked the summer before never leaked after the thaw. After everything was thawed out, I got some anti-freeze and put it right in. The freeze didn't damage a thing. Dumb luck, I guess!

From the land of snow and cold...I have photos of my back yard thermometer from the third week of Jan, 1994 or 95...the reading is 28 to 30 below zero. That week was 20 below or more for the entire week. First time in forever I heard of a school in MN or WI being closed due to cold. Cars were not starting. Most was due to fuel system problems and oil you could stand a pencil in. Mn is always running nights well below zero. Be sure to check your antifreeze and all will be well. You will have more problems with your thermostat, battery, oil, carb, plugs,...and a cold nose. 15 degrees is balmy!!!!The folks from Northern MN are probably laughing at my readings of 30 below.

Yeah I know that most people think our temperatures are usually pretty mild, its our rain that can amaze visitors.

I only remember seeing one cracked block in my whole life, and just wondered if others have seen it happen, and if I should be worried about mine tonight....

I'm not a pro mechanic, but my guess is...the folks in MN who do freeze up engines have their probs show up in the form of blown head gaskets causing coolant leaking into the oil slowly...nothing real obvious..but destroys the engine. Along the roadside, it's hard to tell a stuck thermostat from frozen block. By the time I get to folks, they have already topped off the radiator with fresh stuff but the engine wont run. I have never seen a cracked block, but have seen a number of cylinder head related probs. The 60/40 mix of anti freeze keeps life moving pretty good "up north".

Stay warm and send us the snow...nothing worse than cold without snow to play on!

A jug of anti frezze is a whole lot cheaper than a new motor.I ve cracked one block,cracked one head and had a frozen radiator a couple times.Now i check them all in the fall and make sure there good for at least -40 and always top it off with a 50/50 mix.Cold weather comeing our way next week with a high of +3 for wednesday.Put a new positive cable on my bolt today and hope it starts as its a daily drriver.

Slow Rider,

Nice looking 42.

Stay Warm

Thanks, you stay warm too When i pulled in the local napa with my 51 today the first thing the parts guy asked was hows the heater in that thing?Well the heater works great but the air conditioned floor board works better!

Perfect timing for this post, as we have just that problem here, now. Temperature dropped to
-8c tonight, pretty darn low for this part of the country. My son parked his '84 Rabbit at our place and borrowed our Exploder because the roads are covered in snow. After picking me up from work he fired up the Rabbit to warm it up while we all went in side. It screeched for a few seconds, but he said the fan belt is proabably loose or frozen. I went back outside to walk the dog only to find smoke pouring out frm under the hood. Ran and shutdown the motor. Smoke cleared and the smell of burning rubber drifted away. I grabbed a rad hose and it crunched inside. Pretty much frozen right up, almost solid. Since it's 1:30am right now we'll just have to leave it. Will take a heat gun to it tomorrow and see what we can do to releive some of the ice pressure from the rad and such.
Seems we replaced a hose or something in the summer and being in a hurry just put water in it. Told him he'll have to add some anti-freeze. Obviously my advice went in one ear and out the other, like most of my advice. Could be an expensive lesson...
Any other suggestions?

Get it in the garage if you can,heated or not.Ive used a salamander heater before useing old tarps to make a tent over the front half of the vehicle and the heater.Make sure the tarp is over the top of your heat sorse a couple feet.Ive melted a few.Also have the hood open and the radiator cap off so air can circulate.One of the first things to look at when starting is the temp guage.With the heater on high and the engine running youl notice that the temp guage rised but your only getting cold air from the heater.If its frozen youll peg the guage pretty quickly.

Thanks for the advice, but unfortunately no way to get it inside...well wait now that I think of it... If I push some stuff outside and move my wood working tools to the front.. it may fit. maybe... I can think as little straighter after a decent night's sleep. Off to re-arrange the garage.

Never knew what a block heater was 'till I was stationed in N.D. I almost lost a 340 in a '70 Duster because I didn't have enough coolant in the engine. It was a 4 spd. car, so I used to have to park so I could take off in 1st in the morning. The 90 wt. in the trans would get so thick (or frozen), I couldn't shift the thing for a couple of blocks.

Sounds dumb...but use your heat gun...cover the hood and fenders with a sleeping bag or two. Like Slow said, build a tarp tent to keep the breeze out. Let er rip for an hour...or two. Just make sure you are around to make sure we are not eating roast bunny for dinner...A hair dryer works too. Might not get as hot as the heat gun either...but don't tell the MRS you took it.

Well we got it in the garage, barely. Rad hoses were rock hard! Got the heat gun out and a halogen work lamp on it. Rest is up to Cam. I've got to get to work. He'll have to warm it up and wait it out. Still hoping that nothing popped or broke.

Well I just started both of my old drivers to see if they made it. With current temp in the upper 20's the '72's coolant looked just like always, it started and after a few minutes the exhaust blew clear.

The '55's coolant was soft frozen. Since my anti-freeze checker had said both where about the same I'm not too happy with the checker...

It started right up and fan looked like it was turned normally. It took it longer to blow clear exhaust, but it does now. Once the coolant melted it started to rise a little, but no bubbles in it. No new noises, good oil pressure. Temp gauge hasn't ever worked right.

I had to stop and run some errands. Next step is to check the oil to make sure its not got water in it, and then I'm going to drain the coolant because we're getting warnings of a winter storm with more real cold temps followed by lots of snow.

I hadn't wanted to do that because I need replace the thermostat and the temp sender, plus I wanted to put new hoses on it. Now I guess I know what I'm doing next weekend, provided it warms enough I'm willing to work out there...

final update.. after about 2 hours in the heated garage with a halogen work light shining on it everything loosened up. My son replaced his half melted fan belt, added some anti-freeze to the holding tank and fired it up. Amazingly no leaks and everything appears to working just fine....for now. Not sure how much anti-freeze he got into it. I think he was low on coolent and that may have saved his motor. It's about -5c here now and the car is an unheated garage tonight. We'll see what happens tomorrow morning!
Thanks for the help.

Between tank heaters (in heater hoses), lower radiator hose heaters and freeze-plug block heaters, I like the 500 W freeze-plug block heater the best for the stovebolt six. It puts the heat under the manifold and makes starting very easy under very cold conditions.

The 1200 W tank heater on my '65 283 got warm air going in the defroster fast but I like the block heater on the six. Besides, you can't put tank and lower radiator hose heaters on some engines because the convection currents would not be right and overheating could result.

A 250 W magnet type heater is good for keeping the oil or the starter warm. I use that on the pan holding the 3 gallons of oil on my Cummins in really cold weather.

My .02 -
Yes, block or frost plug heaters are best. To avoid cracked blocks for a nite or 2 you can use a tarp over the closed hood, with a lightbulb near the floor for heat. We also put a battery charger on for a few hours before we try to start it.

Also, just for your information, I hear that in Alaska where it is reallllly cold, they drain the oil and bring it into the house to keep it warm.

Hey, slow rider. Where in northern Wisconsin?

When I lived in Spokane (-25 to -35 some winters), we didn't have a garage built yet. My folks would place one of those aluminum cone shaped trouble lights under the car (91 rabbit diesel). Started like a champ every morn. Personally, I prefer a good block or lower rad hose heater.

Boy I know what you guys are talking about. Brrr, cold this morning. My radio antenna wouldn't even go up on the Acura. And my wipers were stuck for a few minutes. It took me an extra 10 minutes to get my kids to school.

Good thing it is warming up now. Must be over 50...

It was a crispy -3 here this morning with a -21 windchill - projected high of 0. No heat in the garage so I hustled in the battery from the truck and anything else that would be effected over the weekend. Back in 94 went to help out a buddy save his calvs. Hayloft full of hay and parlor full of cows and the water pipes still froze. Fuel jelled in the diesel truck I was driving just made it up to the house. We carried a dozen or so calves into the basement of the house and lit up the old wood stove. Some lost ears and one or two lost tails from frostbite.

Years ago i had a friends dodge truck that would not turn over at all when the temp drop to -40 , even being boosted with two cars at once. Ended up taking the battery inside, putting it in the kitchen sink with hot water around it while we charged it. Then put a colemen tent heater in place of the battery, and a 2 burner coleman stove under the oil pan for and hour with a heavy moving blanket over the hood and sides. It started right up frist try after..

I've also heard that in Alaska some folks won't turn off their diesel pickups all winter if they're parked outside, something that might tick off your neighbor.

Letting your diesel run nonstop is pretty common around here. You should here the parking lot during a hockey game or church service!! Plus all the big rigs idling all winter, makes me glad I live on a farm.

Its Monday evening and its starting to warm up here. It was in the 20s, and we're expecting warm moist air from the ocean (warm?) which after dropping massive amounts of snow should then turn to slush and rain.

I dumped the coolant out of the '55 because I wasn't confident it was good enough. I needed to take it apart anyway, so now I won't drive it until it has a new temp guage and some new hoses.

OldSub - we are at 10 deg right now. I was in Tacoma this am and my wife called to say NO WATER! Dang! Drove home and had to park at the bottom of the driveway.

Got a hair dryer going in the well head and walked up to the shop and sprayed ether in the intake of the old TD7 Dozer and it cranked right up! (I love my bulldozer) I let it run for 20 minutes and then plowed the driveway - by the time I got the burb up the hill and parked, the well was thawed out and life was good. It is back down to 8 degrees right now and really small light fluffy flakes coming down. We have just under 2 ft of snow. Remember the floods of '96? I can see it coming again!

Ken we still don't have snow on the ground and its a balmy 20 outside.

We have a 200 watt spot light in our pump house on a thermostat. It has not frozen since we did that, and it has been near 10 over the last few days. Pump house has a window, and at night I can peak outside and see if its on.

After Christmas '96 we had two feet of snow, and NOAA is saying this storm could do the same. I may need to borrow your dozer!

That or it could be I'll telecommute tomorrow.

The temp was 0 here in Amarillo, TX this morning. My diesel truck would not start even after plugging it in for 6 hours. It seems that some condensation must have plugged the fuel filter. After placing a lamp on the fuel filter for an hour and a half, she fired right up. I was supposed to be in northwest Kansas at 6:00 tonight, but that won't happen being that the truck did not start until 1:45 this afternoon. Luckily, my customers are understanding.

Phil
from the "Arctic Circle of Texas"

Well I made it out of my driveway and 10 miles to the office this morning. Another 2 or 3 inches have fallen since I got here.

I worried about the trip home...

People wonder why we get all excited about just a few inches of snow. Its the hills! I came to a tire spinning crawl three times on the way to work, and that was with only a couple inches on the gound.

That and people around here see so little snow that many of them have not got a clue how to drive in snow. Those drivers can be real scary!

I didn't make it...

At a normally very busy intersection with a very slight incline I was unable to make it up the hill...

Its not wrecked, but its abandoned less than a mile from my office, and about 10 miles from home. Oh well...

One thing that always amazes me, when I see n AD 1/2 Ton without the bed, is how short the backend is. I can't imagine getting any kind of grip in snow with a straight rearend and no load on back. For commuting, I think the modern front wheel drive is a dream come true. I once owned a camaro with no positraction, now that is useless on snow.

The truck I abandoned tonight is a '72 long-wheel-base half-ton. But yes, this isn't the first time I've decided my pickup was worthless in snow.

Years ago I had a Vega station wagon with positrac that loved snow while my 1/2-ton pickup wouldn't move.

On a related note, this is my Suburban today.

http://www.oldsub.com/images/2003/12/IMAGE043.jpg

Steve - you should be drivin the burb in this stuff - my TF panel was great in snow, w/ no added weight in back - my 58 longbox does fine w/ a couple 5 gal containers of water back @ the tailgate, and the new 700R15 snow treads narrow lug tread is best for traction - still light snow here, tho' they say it's gonna turn to rain by morning

Bill

Bill its reasonable to think my burb would handle the snow better than the pickup, but there are two other factors.

1) Body parts to repair a '72 aren't too hard to find. Body parts for a '55 GMC Suburban are very hard to find. I don't want to risk a wrinkled rear fender or some other rare bent steel...

2) I drained the cooling system over the weekend because it didn't have enough anti-freeze to deal with the projected lows, and I haven't refilled it yet.

If its not one thing, its three or four others...

I would not let your truck sit without coolant in that cold either. Antifreeze isn't that expensive. I don't know where you drained the fluid from but there is usually a lot left that doesn't get drained. If that freezes in some passage it could still do the harm, no?

from the land of ice & snow....

this thread is a good tip for guys redoing engines right now....put a block heater in if you are going to drive all year. for the 10$ it costs you, it will save big cash. this weekend it was -47 w. the windchill and the nova - parked outside - started everytime. if you don't use your block heater or can't stand the sight of a plug underneath, just disconnect from the block.

Tony M the hold up on filling it with coolant isn't the cost as much as time and weather conditions!

Plus I don't like the idea of putting it in when I'd just be taking it back out soon anyway.

Local temps are back above freezing so its not likely to make any difference now anyway... Now we just have piles of melty snow and big cold puddles.

FREDO, Good to hear things worked out ok.Ikinda fell off the planet a couple days,dang flu and now bronchitus.Yesterday the wifes van wouldnt start.She wore down the battery trying and camein and said she hooked up my charger to it.I laughed cause i only have a 6 volt charger.On monday at -10 she said it turned over slow but started and tues at -5 and -25 wind chill nothing.Itred starting it with the pedal all the way to the floor thinking maybe she flooded it and nothing.Im geussing the gas line froze.My 51 fired up and asked her how she felt abought rideing to work in a low tech 50 year old truck with a 50 dollar junk engine Idumped a bottle of iso heetin the tank and 4 hours later jumped it with my sons car and finaly got running.Yup, winter SUCKS.After reading kens post am a little nervous,ididnt think that the inground well pumps were prone to freezing.Had that problem in our old house with a sandpoint and above ground pump.I dont know abought where you guys that are geting stuck live but up here at almost every service staion the sell whats called a sand sausage.A long tube with 80 lbs of sand.Iput 3 of them in my 51 in an H pattern,2 over the wheels on the side of the box and one over the axle.That and good tires and so far no traction problems.The only major hurdle is freezing rain or snow and vacume wipers. Scdasacda, were north of RiceLake.

Slow rider,
You must have the same weather we do here is Schofield then! Started 2 modern cars with my ol' truck too. Fun isn't it?

A real blast!Speciaaly sinse now my 51 is our only sourse of transportation.DANG HEATOR CORE WENT OUT ON THE WIFES 86 VAN,GRRRRRRRRR........Looks likea real P>I>A> job.