The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Paint and Body Shop Body Solder vs. Plastic Fillers?

I'm trying to do my home work before I start the body work on my '51 this spring. Has any one used body solder? I'd think the heat would warp the metal. Can anyone give me advice on which way to go and how hard is it to master?

Terry ,
My body man uses Lead when ever he can ..he hates BONDO ..but he been at it for E'ONS ...all my panels have been leaded with a skim of icing to smooth it up ...to get to your ? ..I have never tried it ..I'M SURE TEHRE IS A LEARNIN CURVE !..lol
But as far a warpin ..I DONT THINK they use enough heat to warp the metal ...form what i saw he was just heatin it enough to flow the lead ..nothin harsh .

very little heat involved, an immense amount of skill ... body solder has a good "plastic range", and it's more the solder that's heated, the metal is just hot enough to let it stick as it's worked

but the object of the game nowadays is to do good enough metal work to not need lead, spend yer learning time on the metal, not lead

Bill

Leading was done for decades prior to the invention of "Bondo" plastic body filler. As long as it's done properly, there's nothing wrong with using plastic. Plastic isn't "superior" or "inferior" to lead but is a lot easier for the do-it-yourself types to use.

We used a lot of lead when I built show cars back in the 70s. Heat isn't so much an issue as is the technique. Unless you have someone to walk you through the process don't bother trying to teach yourself... it's ALL technique that needs a lot of practice.

Lead is way too complicated for a beginner... Bondo works great, just use it.

Pop was an old school mechanic having served and apprenticeship back in the 20's. Back then a master mechanic was taught not only all of the mechanical aspects but also bodywork. I remember him telling me of repairs on wood boat tail bodies. When I was a kid in the 50's my first car was a '34 Studebaker coupe. He taught me some about body soldering on that car. I never did a lot after that one but the technique stays with you, not to mention the tools, which I inherited and still have.
Well jump ahead to now. Every time I talk with a body man I ask that age-old question, metal or plastic? I'd have to say about every professional body man that I have talked with claims that the Bondo will hold just as good as the lead if it's applied properly. Now of course you have to factor in that speed is everything in body work and 99.9% of the body men today have only read about body leading.
In doing a "restoration" I feel that if it was lead in the original joint, then it should be lead in the restored joint.
If you’re looking for that show car straightness then about the only choice you have is to do like the TV body men on the hotrod channel, get the 5 gallon bucket out, slather it on till you cover the panel and start board sanding it straight.
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

Denny .......YOU JUST SAID IT ALL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I might be Old School ..but I have way to many projects go POOP over bubblin bondo over the yrs ...I guess though in the same amount of yrs. never had Lead bubble an shoot hard work right straight in the Hiney !
Just My thoughts , I KINDA LIKE MY BODY MAN AN HIS OLD SCHOOL WAYS !
Tim

Thanks alot for all the input guys. Well, lets see... Being I am a rookie, I guess BONDO it is. Since I'm an old dry wall finisher I'll break out the old hawk and 14" trowel and get er done! Thanks again guys, you were a great help with my decison and saved me some money buying Body Solder tool and lead.

One option not mentioned is products like Metal to Metal, I got this from Eastwood CO. Bondo bubbles from moisture usually entering from the back of a repair like a weld. I try to only do butt welds, utilize light from behind to help detect and fill all weld holes. I then use Metal to Metal on the outside of any weld seem or repair, it is applied like bondo but is an aluminum paste with fiberglass catalyst, it is impervious to moisture. Metal to Metal can be sanded easily and have primer or bondo applied over it. I have used this product with great success and none of the mess and danger of lead. Good luck

The application of lead is actually an art-form. However, the modern resin fillers we have today would have been snapped up by the majority of old time body men and I'm not talking about "Bondo." If you've ever used lead, the early resin fillers, and finally the newer products from Evercoat like Rage and Rage Extreme, you'd understand why. No filler, modern or old school is going to replace quality metal working. However, the new stuff is so highly formulated that all of the negative factors of "Bondo" have all but been eliminated. The Evercoat products are by no means cheap but the stuff is so easy to work that the $30.+ a quart can be made up in not having to change sandpaper every 5 minutes.

If you haven't tried Rage or Rage Extreme.....and you're still trying to get decent results from "Bondo"...do yourself a favor and move up to a truly 21 century premium product. You'll never go back to the old ways.

Dave

And the opposite applies as well. Do not overlook the fact that an acid flux is required to tin the area where the lead has to go and I've seen that acid eat it's way through paint. Any product improperly used will probably fail. You can screw up lead easier than you can screw up bondo.

Personally, I think the new fiberglass fillers, being waterproof, are probably your best bet. Traditional bondo is good as long as it's not exposed to moisture.

And I'm an old school guy too, over 60 and started tinkering on cars in the late 50s.

theres a new filler out called all metal im going to try it its water proof so if your filling in a rusted area it should keep the metal dry its made of aluminum the hardner isnt cream its liquid should work as good as lead mayby!!

now your going to use bondo dont forget to finish it off with finish bondo like overcoat or something like that it saves hours of sanding and leaves a smoother surface

Here is the site for Metal to Metal, it uses the liquid hardner. there is also product called Lab Metal on the eastwood site, I have not used the Lab Metal product. Give them a call and ask questions about what you want to do, they are very helpfull.

http://www.eastwoodco.com/jump.jsp?itemID=5594&itemType=PRODUCT

Both are good and Pros like Boyd Coddington will use both but when the factory used lead it was to cover panel seams which require thickness to cover. That is the downside of bondo. You can't expect it to hold up if it's used thick or you fill a seam because it will shrink and that seam will show in about a year.
It was designed to fill and smooth out minor flaws and not be something that creates a whole new contour.
Applied correctly bondo,or whatever you chose to call it will last and you don't have to get out a torch to use it.
Dan

That's simply not true. 2-part polyester fillers cure through chemical reaction, not through solvent evaporation and therefore maintain dimensional stability.

Things like tube spot putty shrinks and can take months to do so unless applied very thin.

Terry, being a drywall finisher, in my opinion, gives you an advantage using the bondo. You already know how to twist the applicator so you do not leave an edge so sanding will be reduced. I treat it as the same as the 30 min. set up mix, but with only about 5 minutes work time. Good luck.....Dale

Woody,
I think you need to try it out. I can't explain why but I can tell
you that it will happen and I've been doing this for 35 years.
The last time it showed up was when I filled the small seam between a rear fender and the rear corner piece for a smoother look
down the side of my PU truck I was customizing.
Maybe it took more than a year, time seems to slip bye, but the point is that it did take place. I've still got that truck and could show it to you. It's not a lot of shrinkage,but at the right angle you can see where that seam is. No lie, Just fact.
I think it is the very reason pros like Coddington will use lead
to fill a deep area then top it off using plastic. Otherwise why
not use plastic for the whole job.
I just thought I'd mention this so someone doesn't get disappointed with the outcome in a few years.
Dan

Fiberglass with a thin putty coat... wont shrink. will flex so it wont pull away with body flex on a seam... Lead, I have used it before, and successfully, and 'Bondo', by whatever plastic filler name, does have its place. It (to my knowledge) doesn't so much shrink as it is rigid and therefore will crack or suck up with body flex, especially at a seam. For a drywaller, bondo should be really easy for you to work with, just act like the final wall is a 'flat' wall with no texture, so your mudd must disappear seamlessly, and you will have little sanding. add a thin putty coat, 5000 grit wet sand after prime; paint; done.
I'm gonna have to check out that Metal to Metal... new to me, but haven't been in a body shop (not counting my garage) in quite a while./
Laterz,
Gator
>|--|~

i have never had body filler fail from thickness or shrink the only thing thats failed is the rust outs i was covering and they still hold up good for 5 or 6 years and by that time im usualy ready for a repaint anyway going to try the all metal filler they have now it seals the metal so water cant get near it sounds good

I agree with some of you guys about getting the metal as straight as possible to avoid fillers. Personally I think if plastic filler had been available all those years ago the "body" guys wouldn't have hesitated to use it!(just my 10 cents worth!)