The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area The HiPo Shop Installing the Chassis Engineering MII IFS kit

Well, I finally started installing the Mustang II kit on my 52 Chevy truck. Some of you might remember that I went with the bolt-on Chassis Engineering kit because I don't own a welder but still wanted to do this myself.

Anyway, I thought I'd keep a little journal of how the installation goes. I only work on the truck a few hours a week and I work pretty slow so this will probably take a while for me to finish. Sorry. This is also the first time I've ever done a MII install so please bear with me.

The engine/trans was already out of my truck (and all the front sheetmetal had already been unbolted as well).

Everything I read online told me that it was helpful to do this on a level surface (or at least level the framerails) and to mark the location of the wheel/spindle on the floor/frame for reference. As you can see, I don't have a level area to work on at all:

http://www.lowbucktruck.com/gallery2/d/311-2/CIMG0007_001.JPG

Looking at that picture I can see that I really need to get some shelving for the garage. Anyway...

Step one has you cut the "webbing" of the lower framerails so that they are as wide as the top rails (2 to 2-1/8"). I used an angle grinder with a a cutoff wheel - which worked - but something a little smaller would have worked a little better:

http://www.lowbucktruck.com/gallery2/d/305-2/CIMG0009_001.JPG

If you look closely you can see the pencil line where I wanted to curve the framerail to meet the existing crossmember.

After I marked the location of the old front axle I unbolted the leaf springs, shocks, and brake lines and rolled it out from underneath the truck. Here's a shot of it (after I removed the leaf springs):

http://www.lowbucktruck.com/gallery2/d/302-2/CIMG0010_001.JPG
http://www.lowbucktruck.com/gallery2/d/299-2/CIMG0011.JPG

Then I spent some time with the grinder cleaning up the framerails in the area where the new MII crossmember is going to sit. Someone had welded on the brake line mounting brackets so I cut them off and ground the weld flush. I also ground the rivets off the shock mounting brackets and knocked those off.

I spent a few minutes spraying the CE parts rattle-can black and while that was drying I degreased the frame rails and tried to knock off as much major crud as I could. It's going to take a lot of time to get all the caked on stuff off of there.

That's all I got done today. I did place the upper "top hats" on the frame rails just so I could get a feel for how everything is going to sit:

http://www.lowbucktruck.com/gallery2/d/296-2/CIMG0012.JPG

It may be a few days but I'll post more as I go.

cool, my whole truck is done with their stuff,pacer front,bolt in rear,motor and tranny mounts and rear sway bar. quality stuff and you cant ask for better people to deal with. good luck lookin forward to seeing the rest.......dave

Yeah, I've been really happy with CE so far...they've taken the time to answer a lot of my questions.

I spent a few hours today de-gunking the frame and removing the rear spring hangers. Man, those rivets really don't like to come off, do they? I also got a little overzealous grinding the P/S box bracket off the frame and ended up tearing a hole in the frame. I'm going to have to have someone weld it up for me...I guess I'll also have them patch the big hole in my front crossmember where the radiator support mounts:

http://www.lowbucktruck.com/gallery2/d/332-1/CIMG0020.JPG

I had kind of hoped to have the frame painted by today but I guess I'll have to put it off.

might i suggest hanging thefenders ansetting it at ride height?
nothing looks goofier than the wheels not centered in the wells....

Good point about the wheel centering - that's a very good suggestion. I did mark the tire location on the fender before I removed the front end. I also removed the fenders/grille/rad support as one unit so I can just sit it on later to check for wheel centering.

The CE instructions recommend bolting on the crossmember with a few bolts and then assembling the arms/spindle/wheel to visually check for wheel centering. That way you don't drill all those holes (10 per side , or something like that) and put it all together just to find out that it doesn't look right.

Thanks - I also didn't think about setting it at ride height before the install. Once I get the frame cleaned and painted I'll lower the jackstands a few clicks so that its closer to where I think it's actually going to sit. It will also make taking off and putting on the front end a lot easier.

reason i say throw a fender on and get it to ride height is that if you lower the truck, the wheels sometimes end up about 1.5" forward (to look right)

Project looks like it's coming along really well. Just take your time, measure, and measure again, then measure again. Nothing wrong with being a lil' bit anal on some issues.
DJ


I accept collect obscene phone calls...

I got to work a little on the truck today. Let's go back a few steps - one of the first instructions says to make sure that the top and bottom of the frame are 90 degrees to the sides in the areas where the crossmember fits up. Well when I started putting this together I took a quick look at the frame rails and thought, "yeah, they're about 90 degrees to each other." Well, I found out today why that's not good enough.

The top of the CE crossmember is a flat plate that sits flush against the bottom of the framerail. The upper spring pockets sit on top of the frame the same way. If either the top or bottom of the framerails are tweaked then the crossmember/upper spring pockets don't interlock and bolt together the way they are supposed to.

Here's an example of how mine were bent:


http://www.lowbucktruck.com/gallery2/d/359-2/CIMG0025.JPG

Not much - but enough to keep the IFS pieces from interlocking. To straighten them out I used a crescent wrench and pipe to bend the frame and a little hammer work to make everything as close to 90 degrees as possible:

http://www.lowbucktruck.com/gallery2/d/356-2/CIMG0026.JPG

Once that was done I clamped the crossmember in place and measured 16-9/16" from the center of the front leaf spring hanger hole to the front plate of the crossmember. The top bend of the crossmember plate naturally fits the curve of the frame:

http://www.lowbucktruck.com/gallery2/d/371-2/CIMG0021.JPG

I don't think it's possible to move this setup forward on the framerail (like someone suggested above) because of this built-in curvature. I tried sliding the crossmember forward a little to see if it would be possible but it would change the angle of the suspension, as you can see here:

http://www.lowbucktruck.com/gallery2/d/368-2/CIMG0022.JPG

The upper spring pockets also have the curve of the framerail built into them so they naturally "self-align" in about the place they want to sit.

I double-checked my measurements and then drilled two holes on each side up though the bottom of the frame and bolted the crossmember in place:

http://www.lowbucktruck.com/gallery2/d/435-1/CIMG0004.JPG

That's about all I got done today. More to come.

cool, really appreciate you taking the time to do this with your install,keep it coming.one thing i did when installing the ce kits i purchased was to trash the bolts that came with the kits and get grade 8 bolts. i would feel much safer especially with suspension componets.........dave

Ditto the grade 8 bolts. They cost just a little more than the grade 5 but are much stronger and well worth the swap.

Good point about the grade 8 hardware. Right now I am using the CE grade 5 bolts to put everything together but I am going to tear it all down once the holes are drilled so that I can finish painting the frame, and once I do that I will put it all back together with grade 8 stuff.

I did some small things today:

- Hung the a-arms/spindle/wheel so that I could check for wheel centering (perfect!)

- Cut the inner fenders to clear the upper spring pockets.

- Drilled about 10 holes attaching the upper spring pocket to the frame. I'm about halfway there, there's about 10 more to go.

http://www.lowbucktruck.com/gallery2/d/456-2/CIMG0013_004.JPG

Just lookin at your pix reminds me of my experience of putting a MII in my 55 about 5 yrs. ago. I used the TCI weld in unit with tubular upper and lower A arms.You are doing things just right,measure 3 or 4 times before welding in the crossmember,or in your case drilling bolt holes.Be sure and post some pix after you get it all back together.

Well, I drilled all the holes and finished mounting the crossmember and the strut rod brackets. There's nothing really tricky to report; everything locates off of the crossmember so its important to have that in the right place before you start drilling all the other holes. There was one bolt hole on each strut rod mounting plate that sits halfway over an existing frame hole so I wasn't able to put that bolt in. I don't think the holes were supposed to line up since the existing frame hole is pretty big and wouldn't work to put the bolt though. The instructions also don't talk about using any existing frame holes so I'm pretty sure it's not supposed to line up but I'm going to call CE on Monday and ask them about it.

Other than that, the only advice I can offer is:

1. Make sure the frame top/bottom is 90 degrees to the sides
2. Buy some new, sharp drill bits before you start.

Now I plan to take it all back off, paint the parts and the frame, and put it all back together with grade 8 hardware.

http://www.lowbucktruck.com/gallery2/d/496-1/CIMG0015_004.JPG

http://www.lowbucktruck.com/gallery2/d/493-1/CIMG0016_003.JPG

http://www.lowbucktruck.com/gallery2/d/490-1/CIMG0017_003.JPG

http://www.lowbucktruck.com/gallery2/d/504-2/CIMG0013_001.JPG

http://www.lowbucktruck.com/gallery2/d/510-2/CIMG0011_002.JPG

If your gonna install power rack and pinion steering,you will want to remove that front crossmember.

good job,looks real good. i'd hold off removin the front crossmember to see if you really have to.just my opinion . i know its probly comparing apples to oranges but i have a power rack on my pacer kit that i bought from ce and everything clears fine.dont know what your using for rear suspension but i installed their bolt in rear kit.so easy to install ,dropped the rear 5" and really cleaned things up.also got their rear sway bar set up...........dave

So, why does every IFS conversion I've seen have that ridiculous-looking droop snoot attitude built into it? The truck looks like a coonhound on a hot trail, with its nose glued to the ground! Doesn't anybody make an IFS with normal ride height?

I'm planning to replace the I-beam axle in my 59 Burb with a real truck suspension, a late-70's Chevy 3/4 ton to match the Dana 60 rear axle that's already there. With a Caddy 500 engine and Turbo 400, it's going to be my trailer-towing rig. I'll probably have to narrow the crossmember a little, and shorten the relay rod accordingly, but when I'm done, I'll still have a truck suspension, not a wimped-out compact car system.
Jerry

Re. removing the front crossmember:
My Heidt's kit put the top shock mount 12 inches back from the crossmember and plenty of room for the rack and pinion.

Keahi, And it also looks like you might have to channel the frame for the rack to fit too...
http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2971292830100410726GtrDTj

http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2386297560100410726jCSNbz

Thanks for all the input, guys. Some quick responses:

dale937: I'm going to run a manual rack. I would prefer power but I got a really good deal locally on all of the components and it came with a manual setup.

david: Thanks..I'm running a Nova rear end and stock leaf springs with a few leaves removed. It's a low buck setup.

Hotrod Lincoln: I like low trucks - personal preference, I suppose. And in a perfect world I probably would not have gone with a MII setup but I'm working within my limited budget and skills. Best of luck with your setup, sounds cool. When I looked into the late model IFS swap everything I read said it would make the wheels stick out too far and I don't have the ability to narrow it the way you're talking about.

tabdoo16: I *think* the CE crossmember doesn't require c-notching the frame. Looking at your pictures I think the CE crossmember sits the rack and lower arm pivots further below the frame than yours. That's probably one disadvantage to this CE kit because it puts the crossmember closer to the ground. I guess that's one of the trade-offs for having a bolt-on setup. By the way, I love the color of your truck.

My four year old son helped me slap some paint on the frame rails today:

http://www.lowbucktruck.com/gallery2/d/556-2/CIMG0003_002.JPG

Great post. I am planning on doing what you have done due to my skill level at this time. Is there a reason you went with the Chassis Engineering kit instead of the other bolt-in kits available? Just wondering because I am in the process of trying to pick one of them.

If anyone else has an opinion on this, I would love to hear it. Thanks!

When I was looking at bolt-in kits I could only find two companies that made them: RB's and Chassis Engineering. There's a thread here about how I chose one over the other.

Another member here (Scott Danforth) is going to be making a GM based IFS crossmember. You can read more about it in the "Parts for Sale" section, but I think he talked about making a bolt-in option as well.

I read the thread, but you never really stated why you opted for the Chassis Engineering kit. Was there something about the kit that made it better than the RB's kit? I'm checking into that other option. Thanks for the help.

There were a few small reasons:

CE actually took the time to send me the instructions after I talked to them - RB's didn't. I figured CE's pre-sale support would probably be indicative of the kind of customer service I would receive afterwards. I also couldn't find one person with something bad to say about CE or their products. I heard mixed reviews on RBs.

Hotrodders.com has company reviews:
http://www.hotrodders.com/reviews.html

I also traded PMs on another board with someone who put an RB's bolt-on kit in their truck and said that they liked it and had no problems with it but that the track width (stock MII width) put the wheels slightly deeper back into the wheel wells. A minor detail, but the CE kit is 2" wider than the stock MII setup.

Edit: I forgot to mention another big reason I chose the CE kit - the adjustable height spring pockets! You can see them here. They can be used to correct for less-than perfect spring height.

I hope that helps. PM me if you have more questions - I think I also have some pictures of the RB's kit installed on my computer somewhere if you want them.

CE offers great quality kits in both bolt on and weld in types. I perfer FATMAN front suspension kits in that they use a very heavy 5/16 thick front crossmember. Their explanation for this is comparable to using a drill press, compared to a milling machine for machine work and how a drill press will chatter and the milling machine, because of the use of heavier components will absorb more shock. This is true. I have used their kit on my 34 International 1/2 ton and it drove and handled like a dream. Remember ... weight equals ride quality. The CE kit is also very beefy and of good quality but I perfer the Fatman over all on the market today. It for me is all about ride quality and not looks. I think Fatman also offers a bolt in for the later model Chevy's. They also will custom tailor any of their IFS for any car or truck at no extra cost. Brent, the owner, is a great person to deal with as well. Check em out on the web...Just my opinion.

Rivet removal...The factory installed rivets hot and sometimes they seem as if they are welded to the frames. I always grind the rivet flat on top and center punch the center of the rivet. Then I use a 1/4 drill bit and drill through the rivet. This will help give the rivet room to compress when you use a punch to remove it from the frame. The nice thing about surgically removing the rivets this way is that if you need to reinstall the part you can use those rivet holes to rebolt the crossmember or other parts back using 3/8 bolts. Your project looks great. I really enjoy looking at the transformation...Keep up the quality of workmanship.

You mentioned different IFS widths. How wide will yours be hub to hub? Also, what size wheel and tire do you expect to fit in there? I am looking at a kit with a choice of 57 or 59 inches and think I want to go with the 59 inch width.

Good question! The CE website just says that their kit widens the track 2" over the original Mustang II. Various websites put the MII track at 56" so I'm gonna guess the CE kit puts it at about 58". Wheels and tires are still up in the air right now; I'm waiting for money to somehow materialize. Right now I have old camaro rims on there as rollers. Ideally I'm looking at 17x8 or so.

Two months after I started: The truck is finally off of the jackstands! A small victory, I know...but still, it feels like progress.

http://www.lowbucktruck.com/gallery2/d/594-2/CIMG0006.JPG

With everything assembled I noticed a few more things to work on:

The freebie springs I got are WAY to soft for me to use. Right now the lower control arms parallel to the ground - which is how they are supposed to sit with the engine and everything else in place. I'll have to order some new springs.

The 15" camaro rims I have rub the lower control arms - a problem probably caused by a combo of too much wheel backspacing, too small a rim, and/or the 2" drop spindles. I may go with a standard height spindle to solve the problem so I can at least drive the truck with the wheels I have on there (until I can afford new wheels).

Other than that everything went together pretty easily. Unfortunately, nobody in the state stocks lower ball joints and shocks for a Mustang II so I'll have to wait for those to arrive from the mainland.

Here's more pics:

http://www.lowbucktruck.com/gallery2/d/597-2/CIMG0005_002.JPG

http://www.lowbucktruck.com/gallery2/d/606-2/CIMG0002_002.JPG

http://www.lowbucktruck.com/gallery2/d/609-2/CIMG0001_001.JPG

Man, that looks good! It really doesn't matter how long the job takes to do it right. My old granddaddy always said, "anything worth doing is worth doing right"!

Nice job on the posts, Isn't funny how when we get into our project and we have an audience "stovebolt crew" we find we have people to report to? Add photos get and get responses this to too cool! I went with a welded in IFS from No Limit Engineering. The fabrication of crossmember and upper shock/bag mounts is top quality the A arms are thick and welds look equally good. Bump steer is a concern on other kits. So I've told. I'm not sure. Nice work good looking Black truck!!! Wizard50

Wizard50 -

How did you like the No Limit Engineering kit? Was the company decent to work with? Sounds like the materials are good quality.

I am looking at one of their IFS kits for my 55 2nd series.

Ross

good job keahi.looks real good. keep em coming..........dave

The site that used to host these pictures no longer exists. I re-uploaded the pics to photobucket:

http://s48.photobucket.com/albums/f214/tkeahi/1952%20Chevy%20Truck/

Very nice job Keahi. I really like the looks of the kit. I've been very impressed with Chassis Engineering products. I've used some of their smaller stuff and the next project I do will most likely be Chassis Engineering all the way.
Thanks for sharing.

Watch out for lower ball joint failure. See my post in the "HIPO SHOP". "Mustang II Lower Ball Joint Failure".

Keahi, Who is the manufacturer of the upper A-arms that you used as shown in your photos.

Thank you, I been searching for a bolt on and think I'm going with the CE you have. I like the fact that it comes with the additional brackets. Bolt on bolt off, the way to go, the stock suspension is all bolted on. Thanks again, Beto

Gabbyp - I think those were TCI upper arms. I ended up using those tubular uppers and pinto lower arms/strut rods.

One of the pictures shows a TCI tubular lower arm as well - I only used that one for mock up because I didn't want to modify the crossmember to be able to use it.

Not to hi jack your thread by has anybody seen or used this kit> does anybody see and pros or cons with it?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...item=290543554837&fromMakeTrack=true

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