The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area General Truck Talk We’re talkin’ De-Rust-It here again!

I have two AD radio cabinets that need to be de-rusted, don’t they all. Last spring I mixed up a 10gal vat of De-Rust-It from concentrate. It worked! It worked good, that is as long as it was hot or relatively warm. Now that the cold weather has hit and we’re down around freezing, it donna work much at all!! Been soaking overnight and doesn’t seem to be doing anything.
All of the makers tell you that these chems work better if they are warm so it comes as no surprise. And although I’ve never taken a chemistry course I have observed that chemical reactions are speeded up by heat.
So my problem now is how do I bring me 10gals of mix in me 20gal Rubbermaid vat up to 120° or so with out melting the container????
I picked up one of those aluminum propane turkey fryers this summer at a garage sale for a couple of bucks, might just try to use that as a container if it will hold up to the chems, whatcha think?
Now where’s that guy that sold me this stuff when you need him!
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

I wouldn't put an unknown chemical mix into aluminum, lots of acids react with it ... why 120*? was it that hot when you did it before? could always get some type of barrel heater to wrap around the tub or an immersible heater

I'd just use electrolytic derusting, washing soda and a battery charger

Bill

Have you ever seen the low temp heat coils sold for animal water dishes so they don't freeze outside? They are sold in pet stores and farm supply stores.Might work.

It won't get to 120 but drag it inside. At least it'll be room temp.

Got a heating pad? Wrap it around the bucket.
You could also take a light bulb of some sort and dip it into the mix a few inches; that should heat it up enough.

An old block heater will work, plus they are made to go under water. Joe

Good idea, but bad idea too.

Only the part that is in the block is under water. You don't want to just throw the whole thing in and have the wires that are on the outside of the block short, or fry you when you touch it....

May have to make something to be able to use a block heater safely, to keep the wire side dry..

Stock tank de-icer or submersible aquarium heater.

I think most of these "acid free" rust removers are formulated with phosphate esters which is why they are slower & need higher temps than the acid based ones.
It might help to put it in the sun protected from the wind and place a piece of black plastic over it.
If that doesn't work it might be easier/cheaper to get a small amount of the acid based material instead of buying a heater that might have a soldered seam that dissolves.
Another thought - re-read the directions carefully - do they mention anything about shelf life after dilution?

I have an old single burner electric hot plate that I set my 5 gal. can on to heat carburetor cleaner, works like a charm. It takes about 10 minutes when hot and about 6 hrs. when room temp to clean carb. parts.

So here where I'm at, stock tank heater or pond deicer's are thermostatically set for a range of 40° to 60°, I talked with the manufacturer of the major brand that F&F carries.
Aquarium heaters, same thing, to small not made to keep the temps up in a freezing room and not made to bring the temp up to where I want it. Block heaters are also made to just keep the water from freezing and would need a way of circulating the water.
So to day I brought the pond deicer back and picked up a 120v water heater element and thermostat and am trying to figure out how I can mount them so they can be safely lowered into my Rubbermaid tank. One thing for sure, is that I’m gonna have to put a GFI in that outlet box I’m using.
I don’t really want 10 or 15 gallons of acid sitting around in the shop Harold. This stuff is supposed to be relatively safe to the environment.
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

Double boiler man. use your fryer burner a steel tub w/water and spacers to set your Rubbermaid tub on to keep it off the bottom of the steel tub or tank. this will keep the high temp from your plastic tub. just another thought to go with all these others.
Mike

There are several types of block heaters, and they are designed to keep the engines quite warm, much more than just avoiding freezing.

Some are the same idea as the water heater element, no thermostat or pump, will get really hot if you forget and leave it on.
Some are external and are usually plumbed in the heater hose loop, these are called a coolant heater not a Block heater. Most all of these have a thermostat but no pump, just check valves and work on the thermo-siphon principal. Some have pumps too.

Grigg

Denny - Go to Fleet Farm (or Farm Fleet in your neck of the woods) go to the farm section and pick up a $20 submerged stock tank heater - the one with the metal basket around it. I used this in my home-made acid tank (wood box and plastic sheet) until the snow started flying and I had to move the tank for plowing.

at the 40-60F range, the acid bath just takes twice as long.

Or pick up a 400W heat tape - wrap around the out-side of the rubber-made tote, put some insulation around it, then put that inside a larger tote to hold it all together.

Other suggestions I have are much more expensive....

Or you could switch to vinegar and bring in the house if you could stand the smell

Yeah Scott, a little dill and I could throw in some pickles also.
The hot water heater element taint looking so good either, if the element isn't completely submerged in water it will burn out and the setup looks more and more dangerous. It would work great if I could mount it through the side of the tank but, wait!!!
Light bulb just went on, if I could sandwich a mount with plastic on the inside and an aluminum plate on the outside to penetrate the container and mount the thermostat on the plate I think I've got it. (at least until all the problems start to raise their ugly heads)
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

I'd use the submersible tank heater personally - 'Cuz I know it worked. Or you could point a 350 watt halogen work lamp at it

Maybe you could find a heater made for a semi's diesel fuel tank.
Artic Fox & Webb come to mind as two manufacturers of those. Some are heated by the engine's coolant but they might have 12V models also. Could be $$$ unless you can find something used or in a junk yard.

Other low $ options - Magnetic oil pan heater - put a piece of metal in the tank for the pan heater to be attracted to. or a battery matt.

Go get your largest corningware casarole dish, drill and tap a heat proof acid resistant tube out the bottom of it leading to a resevour and strap it to a turbo charger on a cat t800 kenworth and pour the chem in ,fire up the cat and high idle it at 1500 rpm then pour the chem into the corning dish and let it heat up and flow to the resi untill the resi has enough product in it.Now the fun part.Get an acid resistant vessel and scoop some heated product, run back to the corning dish and pour it into it.
repeat as needed...

hope I helped...

Denny,why not have them bead blasted.This will save you from blowing your house and shop up.I think it will be cheaper,maybe I'm way off here !!!!!!!!!

I would use some cinder blocks to put a larger metal drum onto, that your plastic drum will fit into loosely. Put some bricks in first to keep the plastic drum from being in contact with the metal drum bottom. Put water in the metal drum so it surrounds the plastic drum (like a huge double boiler you use to cook custard and chocolate on the stove with). Put a heating device under it and let the water heat the plastic drum. No chance of melting your plastic drum and you can regulate the temp. Just don't let the water go dry.

Sorry, pressed the wrong button on my confuser,some scrap iron,baking soda,water and a battery charger and you'll throw rocks at all the other stuff.
There are some good threads on here that explain the process in greater detail.
I derusted the doors and fenders on my 49 half ton.
Pull the large parts out and take a high pressure washer to them
The smaller pts.use a plastic or pts.cleaning brush.
It takes a little time to gather up all the stuff but you won't regret it,I havn't used my tank in sub zero conditions but if current is flowing the water probably won't freeze.
I'll leave that one up to you wire heads guys. PK.

What in the world are you using for a tank Paul, the swiming pool??? Man a fender or door needs a purty big tank.
I'm just lookin for ta heat up 10gal. I'm about ready to make use of some of the bazar suggestions I've heard here.
I can't explain the reason why I haven't tried the electrolises, something just doesn't seem right about it, I don't know what it is.
When the weather is warm the d-rust-it tub is nice and simple, it sits in the corner nice and quiet, pop the top drop in a part, pull it out a little while later nice an derusted. If ya leave it in to long like over night it will even etch into the base metal. All of this BS with the heater just came about since the weather started getting cold.
Denny G

Denny; I used a plastic garbage can to see how well this was gonna work.I was so pleased with the results that I decided to go to a larger container.??????? There was a farm sale down the road from me and I saw a larhe tank in the line up of things for sale,(the type that slide into a pickup truck bed)the top of the tank was damaged,it didn't sell.The auctioner told me I could have it for hauling it away.
When I got it home I took a saws all,cut the top out and placed four pieces of old three eighths boiler plate,equal distances around the inside perimeter,connected them all with wire,threw in to two large boxes of baking soda,filled(water)to about six inches from the top. Hook the battery charger(+) to the plates, I lay a two by four across the top of the tank and hang the piece to be cleaned in the solution(coat hangar wire works for me) the (-)side of the charger connects to the piece you want to clean.
I did the doors half at a time,do one side and turn over and do the other side,fenders the same way,you will have a small section in the middle of the fenders that you can't get in the tank,it's in the middle of the part so is easy to get with a wire wheel or brush.
I think the garbage can will work for the radio boxes.
Try it you'll be glad you did,and when your finished there are no unused chemicals laying around.
Need any more help I'll be glad to help. Us old pilots and geezers got to stick together.
PG.

I'm with Paul, the electrolysis method works well, and won't "etch into the base metal" no matter how long ya leave it - if you've got bigger parts to do, just rig a wooden box and line it with sheet poly - there's a good writeup here

I'm a bit more precise than Paul on the sodium carbonate, about one Tbsp per gallon, even though I happen to have it in 50# sacks, because it's what I use in my antique bottle washing machine, not a speck of rust on all the bare metal inside

Bill

An Antique Bottle Washing Machine?????? Ya couldn't possably be drinking that much home made beer Bill.
Yeah, I've printed out about every article that has been posted on the subject, and I subscribed to an electroplating forum for a few years.
One of the things that concerns me is that I'm not absolutly sure I want to take the cad plating off yet. If I can't get them plated I might end up painting, which I really hate to do to a radio, that would be a last resort. The electro-striping would probably pull the plating off.
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

better than beer actually a fruit juicing operation

the process has no effect on sound plating of any kind, even paint if it's not already rusted beneath it, sound cadmium should come out looking like it did previous - I used a few pieces of galvanized metal for splash deflectors in the washer, and there's been no effect on them

the electrolytic process with sodium carbonate is as gentle as you can get, it has an effect on iron oxide and black rust only - try it on some excess plated parts if you have them

if you want to get real technical about preservation of metals see here, files 9-15 - should suit your penchant for detail

Bill

How doooo, you find those sites. Ya just know I'm gonna be tied up all morning tomorrow printing that stuff out, don't ya!!!
Great stuff Bill, being of limited education I probably can't absorb all of it, but at least I should walk away knowing a little more than I did.
Thanks for the link.
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL