The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop 235 block problems

I got my '54 235 block back from the shop yesterday. As I was unloading it, I examined it closely. The #1 main cap has a crack down one of the main bolt holes. I sent the block back out for a magnaflux. Any suggestions?

Chip :mad: :confused:

Didn't we say........STARTOVER!
Hey you saved the mag money by lookin closely!

First sugestion would to be give the block back to the machine shop that bored it so you dont have to pay for it.Next if a bolt hole is cracked its JUNK no need for anymore worry or even looking at it .Its scrap.Now 359 and yourself must get together and get that 235.Com on 235 give hime a good deal so we can have another stovebolt tearin up the streets.I got a few here but think the ride would be a little much for you.

Maybe my first post wasn't totally clear. The main cap is whats cracked. Even if I can find a #1 main cap, I'd still have to have the block line-bored. That risks making the cam gears too tight, correct??

My block is bored, w/ cam bearings and new freeze plugs. Would it be cheaper to line bore this block, or pitch it and start over?

I talked to PTE359 last week. Heck of a nice, honest guy, just sounds like he's hanging onto his 235 for the moment.

This car is gonna put me in a rubber room.
chip

[ 01-22-2002: Message edited by: chiphead ]

Chip, the main bearing bores are 4 different sizes in these engines making a line hone or boring operation very expensive.You could probably buy 3 blocks and still come out ahead dollar wise.

I also dont like doing it on the 235 cause it makes the cam gears a little tight. Talk to the machine shop.They should have caught the mistake before they did all the work.If they dont want to help,its time for a diff shop plain and simple.You allways MAG anything before rebuild no matter what!!!

chip,

I got a complete 235 sitting in the back yard. It needs to be redone,but if all else fails come get it on a weekend. The wife would be glad to see it gone. And she doesnt know it yet but this 235 goes to the wayside some time down the road a small block chevy is going to sit in it. That was a serious offer

Chip

Just did mapsonus.com and it is 352 miles from jackson miss to rome ga. 7 hour trip one way come get it. it still has bell housing,clutch, flywheel and even old 6volt starter with the kick lever. What a deal laughing.Honestly though, I never started the old motor or even tried to, dont have a clue what it looks like on the inside, just an offer is all. good luck to ya .
Alan

Thanks Alan! What year is your extra 235?

How hard would it be to use the '60 235 block I have? Its just the bare block, std bore with caps. Its got no pans or pumps or mounts, which are all different from my '54 235.

chip

Chip

I will check the #'s but I pulled it from a 54 1/2 ton.

Alan

Hey, Chiphead, While you're headin' this way, I've got a 235" truck motor that you're welcome to, also. Double your chances of having something that will work for ya. Kinky6.

chip: And so the story goes......... cracked #1 cap. That was caused by incorrect shimming. I went back and re-read both your posts on "235 crank install" and "235 oil lines".

In one post you mentioned that you could not find any shop that took working on your 6 seriously. Also that you talked to them about balancing your 235, and they looked at you kind of like, "what, are you kidding".

Well... there is a lesson to be learned here, and that is to find a "QUALITY" shop, and to discuss your problems/needs/concerns with them from the onset, before any work is performed. What I mean by a quality shop is- a "reputable" shop. One that is recommended by friends, neighbors, auto parts store(s),other "old truckers", or that maybe you have dealt with before. A quality shop will do you right, and give you a good job at a fair price. At the same time without cutting corners. They will also stand behind there work, usually with some kind of warranty. The warranty will usually cover parts and/or workmanship for a specified period of time.

All this being said, something is wrong with this picture! This block should have been checked out (magnafluxed) before a boring bar ever touched it! This is standard operating procedure in any shop. Once the block arrives, it is stripped down all the way. All bearings removed, freeze plugs, oil gallery plugs, everything. Then it's into the hot tank for a good cleaning. Once out this is the time for a careful inspection of all parts, (block, caps, rods, crank) measurements are then taken, and all bores (cylinder/bearing) checked for true and alignment. Now the block should be magnafluxed, before any cylinder boring, surfacing, or bearing bore alignment machining operations take place.

Then after careful measurements are taken to determine necessary cylinder overbore, the close inspection of all parts, checking for cracks, first by visual inspection, paying close attention to main web areas, main caps, thrust bearing areas, cam drive/thrust area, pan rail, front surface of block, rear surface of block, and deck. Remember, this is a visual check.

Next step should be magnaflux check of the same block areas. If the shop did not cover this with you when you brought the block in initially, they should have. At this point of the inspection, the shop should have called you to inform you that a mag check was necessary, as this is the prudent step to take. I do not know what was said, or what was done, but the ball was certainly dropped!
Someone at the shop should have caught this cap. I honestly do not think they even magged the block in the first place. Stupid guy's in the shop didn't check these part out!!!

Yes, take block back to the shop, with cap and show them the crack. Have them mag the entire block. Also take your crank (reground), and reconditioned rods too. Have them check that crank, and carfully check the rods. The rods are very susceptible to cracks along the beam, just above the big end, and at the top next to the clamp bolt. Have them magged too.

If you find any other cracks, or suprises in your block, you may want to toss it. Just depends on what it is. The problem you face is unusual in that your car (54) uses those bastard side mounts on the block. Both earlier and later blocks use different locations for motormounts, and do not have the side mounts. Alan has a 54 truck block. but it is a different casting #, so you will have to check that out, to see if mounts will work.

If all's well with everything else on your block besides the #1 cap, thats an easy fix. Just take in that #1 off your other 235 you have, and they can rebore just #1. (The cam gears will be fine, thats just another horror story).Then have them fit the mains, and install the crank,if they have not done this already. If your main bearings are oversize for your .010 under crank, they can pick up some undersize (reborable inserts) and align bore back to the size you need. Also have them install rods and pistons to crank and assemble the shortblock. You will be much further ahead doing this as they will be setup with all the parts there anyway, and will have to warranty the shortblock. If they will not warranty there work, or give you a hassle, find another shop. It's as simple as that at this point of the game. I think they will work with you, if you work with them, as any shop need the business and we all know screw-up's do certainly happen!

Think Chevy!

:rolleyes: :p

*Throws up hands* THANK YOU! I was beginning to think I was insane. So you're telling me that a good shop will check everything without having to bird-dog them??

I had talked to several local shops over the past year, about this 235 and a Pontiac 400 that I want to build. One shop told me that I was wasting my money on anything but a SBC. He was very negative about it. He has since closed up.

Around here, most machine shops make their money from working on large diesel trucks and trailer refrigerator units. Two shops that I talked to didn't want to work on my stuff at all.

The shop that did the bore job did not mag the block, assuming it was OK. They were not familiar with this engine, and worked it over like a regular engine. I personally watched while the guy loaded the block back into my truck with a hoist hooked TO THE F&&&ING FRONT MAIN CAP. So go figure what happened.

PTE359 told me of the shop that he uses. So I brought my head, bottom end and block to that shop. The machinist listened patiently as I rambled on about what I'm trying to do. He made several good suggestions, then said he'd mag the block and call me. So thats where it sits now.

As far as my other engine, its uses locking-lip type mains. My block uses dowel-pin mains, so I don't think the caps are swappable. The '60 block has side mounts, but the bolt pattern is different. Will a set of '60 side mounts let me put this engine in my car???

Let this be a lesson to those of you lurking around at Stovebolt. Never assume anything, find a shop that will talk to you, and mag before building!!

Any chance these threads could end up as a Tech Tip? I'm gonna owe you guys a case of Cohibas by the time my motor is built.

Chip

Dam Chevy

I could listen to you explain chit all day long,and you make it always to where us dumb [censored]es
understand it clearly. Thanks for the lessons learned.

Alan

chip: Your 60 235 block has side mount bosses cast into the block. They are a different pattern and at a different location than on 53/54 blocks. The 60 235 block main caps use locking lip inserts and your 54 block uses dowel inserts.

If all is well with your block, you can use the 60 #1 cap. Just have the machinist install the dowel. The insert OD dimension, thickness at insert crown and width are the same on either the dowel or locking lip inserts. No difference at all, just how the insert locks in the cap. The caps are identical in cap bolt center to center distance and cap width/length.

If the shop finds other troubles with your 54 block, dependent upon what kind of problems they might be, you may want to take another course.

I don't think at this point your worring about having a "period correct" matching number engine in your 54. If you are, then you will have to deal with the block you have or find another 53/54 matching block. If not then you are going to have to deal with this motor mount detail.

The 53/54 car frames have those suspension towers right next to the sides of the block. I do not know what the bolt pattern on the 53/54 motor mounts/blocks are. I think that the 3 hole pattern cast on later blocks is different dimensions and location. You'll have to check.

If I were you, I would check your 60 block measurements against your 54 car just to be sure. See how far off they might be, and if possible new motor mounts made to make/adapt to fit the 54 car frame. Once you get the dimensions off your original 54 block, your 60 block, and your car frame, then you could call Alan and have him measure and compare. His truck block is listed as a different block casting number than the car block, as so, it may/may not have the mounts. Then you would know if it'll work or not, and what your next step will have to be.

You can always ask your "new" machinist, as he may have another 235 out in his boneyard with a cap just for you. Work with him, and he'll work with you. If you have any questions ASK HIM!! And do not hesitate. The more he knows about what you want and need on your engine, the better he can help you. Good Luck, and keep asking questions, both there, and here!

Think Chevy!! :rolleyes: :p

OK, now here is where you old truckers and AD'ers come in handy. My extra engine is a '60 model 235. However, I got it out of a '54 model truck. The guy was making it into a SBC street rod with a custom clip. I got the 235 and the granny T-tube 4 speed for 100 bucks in 1993.

So how are the '54 truck motors held in?? Side mounts, front mounts, or what? I didn't buy the mounts with the engine, but I'm hoping a set of '60 side mounts would make her drop into a '54 chassis. Thoughts??

Chip

OH, will changing the blocks hurt the value of my car? It was numbers matching. :o