The Stovebolt Site Forums The Parking Lot Big Bolts Grigg's diesel conversion

Grigg,
I've been lurking long enough.Could you summarize how your vehicle will perform with the Detroit.What modifications will be needed to the sheetmetal?I would love to convert my 61 White 2000 (a photo of it in The Classic White Truck Page)to diesel.And Spanky,if you read this,my 53 Cabover is 98% completely restored (my 52 turned into an organ donor)and I'll be posting photos next week.

THANKS!!

Hi,
Quickly, as I have to run,
My 48 Chevy 6400 is not yet done, so most of these statements are educated guesses so far.
In my case I have a 3" body lift to help the transmissions fit under the floor. In addition to that I will need to rework the floor at the front of the transmission, both to make a little room, just a few inches, and to make the hole in the floor wider to the transmission can be slid back and removed with the cab in place.

As far as performance, it should be better than the first ford diesel pickups without turbos, and perhaps as good as the first 7.3 ford with a turbo. It will not compare to a modern diesel pickup. It will go fast, and should get better than average fuel economy, 15-24 or so, depending on finished weight and driving habits.
I expect it to handle a load better than many pickups, and the 10 speeds will make it much easier to drive with a load, as it will always have the perfect gear for the situation.

Any more questions?

Got to run,
Grigg

Forgot to add that the dimple in the center of the firewall will need to be widened about 6 or 8 inches. It is deep enough already, but not wide enough for the valve cover, governor, and throttle linkage.

I have the front crank pulley almost touching the radiator support, just enough room to get a belt on and off, and the dent in the firewall is just deep enough (but not wide enough).

Inner fenders will be a problem. I will do what I can to put some in, but they will be heavily trimmed, or remade all together.

Grigg

That tis why I would sugest a 1960+ body style GM. . .plenty of room for diesel coversion's atleast the 5.9L/6.7L cummins appear's to have room enough to drop right in. . .

Tho i haven't meaured out the trans but reconfiguring the floor should be that tough. . .

Mike D

Mike,
You are a little late with the ideas... I considered the Cummins, and other body styles, and even other makes of trucks. And of all the choices I decided the best ones for me are the AD Chevy, DD 4-53T, and RTO-6610 Roadranger.
I am not switching body styles now just to avoid a little sheat metal fabrication, if it's not that it would be some other problem with a different model truck...


Had the idea for the whole truck, and most of the details worked out even before I had any parts, engine, trans, or truck... The plan is for a 48-50 Chevy 2 ton, 5 window cab with no rust, and I'll stick with that.
I like the AD Chevy's much more than any other years. I bought the engine for this conversion long before I even found the perfect truck for it.

There's no going back now,
Grigg

Grigg,

Full speed ahead with your project. I think it will be a pretty cool truck when you are done. I'm not familiar with a RTO-6610. Is that a 10-Speed?

Bill

Yes, a 6610 (or older 610) is the smallest Roadranger 10 speed, mine is an overdrive (RTO). Weighs 357 lb without clutch housing, shifter, or oil.

Grigg

if your all ready into the project you do what you do !

I'm entertaining thought of my own diesel project just not getting much Info other what i found out with a tape measure lots of leg work. . .

Why are 2.5Ton and bigger truck's so much easyer. . .
my 1959 Mack B61T was some easy to up date. . .
I had a turbo added to the old 711END high compression non turbo diesel, I swapped out the Mack 2 stick 15spd (Triplex) for my own version of the 2 stick 15spd (Mikeyplex) truck went from a 58mph dog to 72mph snorting beast. . .with out over sized tires. . .still running the stock 12.00-20's

Mike

Grigg,

Is 9th 1 to 1 ?

Bill

Correct, an RTO model has the next to last gear as direct, or 1 to 1, (same thing).

So for my RTO-6610 9th gear is direct and 10th is 0.80 to 1.

The shift patterns are different for the "RT" non overdrive and the "RTO" overdrive models. The direct drive gear is always bottom right corner, so the RT transmission has a logical normal shift pattern, the RTO has a slightly messed up pattern, 8th to 9th is a funny "n" shaped shift (so is 3rd to 4th, same gears but on the low side of the range box).

Grigg

Interesting, I never saw one. Mine was a regular 10-Speed. I'm going to say an RT-910 ('71 GMC 9500).

Bill

If you would like to see one:
[IMG]http://thumb9.webshots.net/t/52/52/0/7/20/2991007200080251109nYrMtq_th.jpg[/IMG] Well, it's actualy an RT-610, but looks the same as my RTO-6610.

and installed in the truck:
[IMG]http://thumb9.webshots.net/t/59/559/0/57/53/2559057530080251109rweveK_th.jpg[/IMG]

Grigg

alot of work for a 4-53T 4 popper. . . But it is a GM diesel. . .

Your truck your money your work. . . Do it your way. . .

Mike

Thanks Mike, I think I will do it my way...

It may be just a 4 cylinder, but it pretends to have 8 cylinders. 25% more power strokes per revolution than a 6 cylinder Cummins....

In reality it's not a hot rod, but it will have enough power for me.
I had to draw the line somewhere with this project, because there is always a bigger and better choice, like a 24V71 Detroit, or four wheel drive, or a GMC 702 V12, or..... You can always build a bigger heaver, more expensive, and less efficient truck. My goal is to build just enough truck to satisfy my everyday needs, and have fun with it. If I build to much of a truck, to big, burn to much fuel, and so on the I won't use it everyday, my 48 is going to be my everyday truck.

I had to have a Detroit in my project, for reasons that most people won't understand. I did consider the 6V53T, but it's just to big and heavy for my preferred body style, to use the V6 the truck would have to be one size bigger and heavier, and burn more fuel, it would end up being less of an everyday truck, not my goal.

I did own a truck of similar size with a 6V53T (actually twin turbos), and I really enjoyed it.[IMG]http://thumb9.webshots.net/t/59/459/8/96/31/2703896310080251109gPjxtT_th.jpg[/IMG] but it was just a tad to big and awkward for everyday use. [IMG]http://thumb9.webshots.net/t/63/463/3/34/36/2582334360080251109cISjVP_th.jpg[/IMG] I did put lots of miles on it, and it was great for road trips, even did 8,000 miles by myself in less than 2 weeks time. It had plenty of power, and handled a trailer better than my dad's 05 F250. I sold it to continue working on my 48 2 ton, the 48 will be the truck I'll keep for ever.

Grigg

Grigg,

That 4-53 will have plenty of power for your truck, with great economy to boot. They were still putting them into 2-Ton trucks as late as 1978 or so.

Matched up with that Road Ranger is also a real good choice.

I always wanted to put a 3-53 in one of my 1-Tons. I wore out my '64 C-30, but have a '65 C-30 that is very restorable. I wanted to put an old style 8-speed Road Ranger in it (R-46?) but I believe it will be a little too heavy for the truck, especially hitched up to a heavy Detroit.

Getting back to economy, I have a 2-53 in a John Deere farm tractor. It is almost too much power for it and it hardly uses any fuel.

Bill

Back when I was wrenching the big rigs, some guys would convert Roadrangers to OD by swapping two gears on the countershaft. Don't remember the exact procedure, but it was a pretty common modification for the shops that did their own trans repairs.
Jerry

Edit: I believe I've heard about some aluminum block 4-53's out there, in some sort of military application. Anybody got some definite information on them?
Jerry

Grigg I love the FORD ! ! !

I had a F-500 and F-700 that body style 5.9L 12-V 5spd+2spd diff in the F-700. . . than a 5.9L 24-V with the 6spd in the F-500 both truck's were unstoppable. . . sold them to my old man he put them in his show room. . .

was a fairly simple swap out power steering pump ran the brakes. . .

those truck's is what started my K-3000 clone project. . .

I like the big C's cummins and CAT. . . not really a detroit fan But i have ran a few in my day's. . .

Mike

Yes. most Roadrangers can me made into an overdrive by simply interchanging two gears, no parts to buy.
In my case the small Roadranger transmissions (610, 6610, 613, and 6613) are not that simple. To do it right they require the purchase of 5 new gears. Although two gears can be turned around for an OD, it messes up the ratios and you effectively have a 9 speed and not a 10 (5th and 6 gear are almost the same).

The aluminum block Detroit's you are talking about are actually 3-53 engines, and they were used in the Gama Goats, the engines are still readily available and cheap, some things about them are quite different from a regular 3-53, and most people change a number of small details before re powering with one., if your were curious, the head is still cast iron.
Detroit also made some aluminum 6V53's and some 4-71's, used primarily for mine sweeping boats, non magnetic. perhaps they mad some other aluminum engines, but I am unaware of any aluminum 4-53's.

Grigg