The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop 65 engine problems

hello :
i just purchased a solid 65 short step with the original 8cyl engine(283?) and floor shift trans. i have been told the motor has about 165k miles and was partially rebuilt about 40k ago.
i have also been told (by prior owner)that the carb is a rochester 2bbl which was notorious for being problematic.
being new to this hobby i am not familiar with the skill of using the choak. the other day for no reason the truck just wouldn't start in spite of a recent tuneup by prior owner.
my question --
i would like to use this as a practical mode of general around town transportation and reliability is very important to me. would it be worth it to replace the motor with a good basic 350 crate motor? what kind of motor would be a reliable choice? will the 350 be a direct fit? will a 350 crate bolt direct to the existing trans. or are modifications needed?
as the truck is so solid i do not mind investing up front in a good trouble free motor.
your advice is much appreciated.
thank you

P....65 should have an auto choke,,,the carb on the truck is a very good carb GM used them for years and years,,,with the gass prices look at staying with the 283 unless you just want more power,,if a 350 is your want stay with an early one...doc

The basic G.M. goodwrench 350 replacement engine is the way to go. It is a perfect fit. You put all your manifolds & electric parts on from the old engine. I put one in every truck I get. That should be a good carb if you put a kit in it & all is working well, but you could get more power from a 4 barrel. If it is an auto. choke like Doc says it should work fine. If it,s a manual choke one of us bolters can tell you how to use it & then you can get used to it. Every engine will act a little different.

The 350 will fit right in there. A crate 350 would probably be the cheapest way to go. If you rebuild the 283, it will probably be more expensive, but a nice, dependable engine all around. I think that 2 barrel carb would work nicely, and be dependable too.

i prefer a manual choke. they seem to have less problems and you have control of it unlike a automatic which works most of the time. and you can turn it down when you want not waiting for it to kick down on it's own. that is one of the biggest problems i've seen on other peoples is them not wanting to kick down. i bet you will like it after you get use to it.

For originality the 283 is the way to stay. 350 do have more power but chew up more gas. The 283 can get depending on gearing 17-20 hwy. 350s, I have one, get about 13-16 usually. Sometimes a bit more sometimes less. My pick up got 11.5 city with auto and FI. Had good power but thirsty. Got just over 14 hwy. Not very good. Once got 17 with the timing far advanced which is not good to do. Takes out the rod bearings sooner. My first car was a 61 Chevy Bel Air with the 283 auto. Ran awesome. I wish I had that today in the shape I got it in. It was 4 door with red and white colors. Ran smooth. Used no oil. I would do a rebuild on yours with some headwork and MSD ignition, balancing, dual 2 1/2 inch or 3 inch exhaust, headers with 9:1 pistons. Should run awesone and get good mileage. Remember, WHEN we go to war with Iran, gas at these prices with seem like a bargain! Something to think about. A nice sweet stovebolt 6 is something to consider. They can be made to run quite well with some work. In 65 they had a 230 or a 292 inline. The 250 came out in 66'. Just a few thoughts. I'd rather drive mine daily or at least often then just once a month or so and the rest of the time just look at it due to high gas prices. A 350 or big block for speed or an inline stovebolt or 283 for economy. Even a 327 2bbl didn't do too bad on fuel depending on set up. I love the stovebolts purrrrrr.

thanks guys.
based on the feedback the general idea seems to be to give the 283 a chance. the choke is manual (push/pull knob on the dash)prior to shipping the seller did a tuneup,and put a rebuild kit in the carb, it was running like a top. 10 days later when it arrived after being shipped cross country the engine would not start at all, not even a healthy sputter. i do not know how to properly use the choke, is it possible that not chokeing properly could foul up the motor that bad?
thanks

P..on the choke,,if it,s cold out pump the throttle 1 or 2 times pull choke out turn over 5 sec or less if no startup push choke in hold throttle to floor and retry,,if engine is loaded on fuel this should clear it,,,you will have to learn how to start the 283 as to what it needs to fire up...doc

P,
This, to me anyhow, is the fun of these old beauties we mess with. A guy has to DRIVE them not just sit in them and ride. They each have their own way of doing things. Some are easy, some are not. It takes me back to the day. IMHO!
dg

Yes, the choke can cause it to foul the plugs if used improperly. IMHO The choke should only be used for starting and short warmups, and then should be open all the way as soon as possible.

i took it to my mechanic, he adjusted the choke and said the plugs were fouled which accounted for the starting problem. what technique do i need to learn to prevent this from happening again? are the procedures outlined by doc good straight across the board or is each truck different?
thank you

For an automatic choke, depressing the accelerator to the floor will set the choke on a cold engine and squirt some gas into the intake manifold. The engine will idle faster with the choke on. Too long running this way will foul the plugs. As you drive the choke thermostat will get warmed up and will adjust the choke open.

If everything is dialed in, Carb, choke timing, etc...When cold you should only have to press the accelerator down to the floorboards twice and start the engine. When warm just start the engine...maybe a little squirt of the accelerator.

It should be the same for most vehicles. It's automatic. If it is working correctly, you shouldn't have to be too concerned with it happening again.

thanks builder:
i think my choke on the 65 is manual(push/pull knob on the dash)
so in this case would i be following the steps outlined by doc above? what did determine wether a vehicle had either an auto choke or a manual choke in the older trucks. i learned to drive in the late 70's so the choke is still a foreign concept to me.
thanks

p5861...Yes, Doc has it right. When cold, pull choke out and after starting, push the choke in as the engine warms up, but just so it still keeps the engine running.

With a manual choke, depending on the outside temp, you may need to start the engine with full choke, or maybe just half choke.

With an automatic choke, a thermostat spring opens the choke as needed according to the engine temp. You just push the throttle to reset the auto choke when starting. As you drive, the thermostat spring adjusts the choke as necessary.

In other words, try to run the engine as little as possible without using the choke, or using less choke the warmer your truck gets. If you push in the choke until the engine starts to faulter, give it a little more choke.

If you have to start keeping the choke out to keep the engine running (when engine is at operating temp), you may be over choking and have fouled the plugs again. Sonner or later if too much choke is used, your plugs will foul enough that they will cease igniting the fuel.

Choking just draws more fuel into the engine. When the engine is cold (especially in winter) it is easier to ignite the fuel with the spark from the plugs when there is more fuel in the cylinder. As the engine warms up, it needs less fuel for the spark to ignite it.

Rub your finger on the inside of the tailpipe. Is it wet black? that is too rich. Is it black/grey but not wet? that is probably OK. Is it more white/grey? then it is too lean. This way can only be a good indicater after many miles though. If you have just made a change in the carb and/or timing, it is hard to judge this unless you have put some serious miles again.

thank you builder for such a comprehensive explanation, it was very helpfull.

the engine is now stalling unless i maintain pressure on the accelerator (the engine is warm, the choke is off and i must start it by depressing the accelerator down to the floor during
start) additionally there is gas leaking from around the base of the carb. my mechanic is suggesting that we send the carb out for a good rebuild, replace and re-adjust the choke cable and replace the old rusty "in the back of the bed" gas tank (which is not original)which is most likely supplying cruddy tainted gas in spite of fuel filters.(the prior owner also suggested this)
i would like to put the tank under the bed, but i do not know if this is the correct forum to discuss that?

thank you