The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area The Electrical Bay The Radio Bench Not a happy camper right now

I sent my radio up to D&M Restoration about 6 months ago with a letter detailing my requirements (basically that I wanted to maintain as much originality as possible but would be installing it in a 12 volt system). I also emailed my desire to run the radio on 12v without using a resistor. Also, I spoke to M&M several times about my project, mentioning that from what I had read these old radios don't like to run on stepped down voltage through a resistor.

Several weeks ago I called asking about the status and was informed that it was all done and just awaiting the correct paint. I sent up a quart of JC's hammertone beige. I also asked about how they handled the 12v/6v requirement and was told that I would have to speak to the other M. I was asked for my credit card info and billed for the job in the meantime.

Today I called to ask about the status and after explaining which radio I was referring to again, reminding them about the paint, etc. I was told that "there was a problem with that radio." Like what I asked? This radio was rebuilt to 6 volts as we never received any instructions as to what to do. WHAT? We'll just send you a BIG resistor that you can bolt to the firewall....

I am not too happy about this and am disappointed that I wasn't informed about what they were going to do, regardless of my instructions. I understand that it is not a seamless conversion but should have been consulted.
:mad:

Wow, that is not an example of good customer relations. I hope that they used your paint. Let us know how it turned out.

I believe that you can get a three terminal regulator to run your radio on if you don't want to use a resistor. There are threads on the Runtz line of devices.

Hey truckernix - Thanks for the quick response. I know I read several threads here about running the 6v radio in a converted system, but haven't really researched it too much as I thought that is what I was paying D&M for. In the phone conversation this morning, after being informed of the situation, I asked if there wasn't a more stable way to drop the voltage rather than using a resistor. By stable I mean having a fairly consistent 6v being applied to the radio. M said that there may be places out there that deal with that sort of thing but that they were not aware of anything but using a resistor and that I should check around, and oh, BTW, Jerry did your radio... (whatever that was supposed to mean.)

I will again research the threads here on the always reliable 'Bolt for the best solution to my problem. If anyone knows offhand chime in.

Don

Fred (aka Truckernix)- I found your replies on this topic at AD Radio to 12V to 6V Reducing Resistor . Do you still feel that the resistor is a reliable way to go (considering the expensive restoration cost of this radio) or would you recommend a solid state regulated supply as you mentioned in your last post in the referenced thread? If a solid state regulated supply do you know of any available?

Thanks for the lessons,

Don

Don,
here is one thread that I saved:
http://www.stovebolt.com/bboard/cgi-bin//ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=001997#000000

Some folks don't like the idea of running a radio on a resistor. In general it should not be a problem. However, if one or two tubes were to fail, the radio would see a higher voltage across it's terminals and this could hasten the failure of all the tubes.

A resistor just sits inline with the radio and causes a voltage drop, creating heat at the same time. Variations in the system voltage will show up at the radio with this scheme. On the other hand, a regulator has terminals that are connected between the supply and ground. A third terminal supplies the 6 v load and this stays at 6 volts as long as the system (generator) voltage is above 6 volts.

Fred

Fred,

It looks as if 'Bolter # 135 fifthave not only has the Runtz but also developed it back in 1992. I hope to call the folks at D&M again today and see if I can get to the bottom of this foul-up.

Thanks,

Don

I spoke to Randy (aka fifthave) at Fifth Avenue garage this morning and basically he told me that there was no good way to run a 6 volt radio in a 12 volt system and that trying to do so would result in premature failure of the radio. Of course, he also said that converting the radio to 12 volts was the way to go.

When I spoke to D&M they basically said that Randy didn't know what he was talking about and that the unit would be fine running on a BA resistor. I reminded them that one of their competitors had quoted me a price for the 12 volt conversion close to what I was being billed for a 6 volt restoration. I've got a feeling that I'm going to get screwed on this deal.

In some ways I am now wishing I would have just stuck with the original 6 volt generator in the truck, but the consensus seems to be to convert over to 12 volts for ease of starting, brighter lights, etc. :hammering:

Don,
I definitely do not share that opinion and someday if I convert my truck to 12 V, I will use a resistor. By the way, the value of your radio would normally be higher by keeping the original configuration. For the AD radio, a resistor of 1 ohm and around 40 watts works well. I don't know the current draw of your radio but if you know that, I can suggest a value.

Fred

Give these guys a shot:

www.antiqueautomobileradio.com and I went to the dealer locator, for the dealer nearest to my shop.

I sent them a '66 Chevy truck radio, along with an e-mail and a note in the package, giving directions for the conversion and my return address. Within three days, I received a call from the owner, stating that he received my radio and wanted to confirm what needed to be done. He replied with the same directions I had given.

Out of curosity, I asked him what his anticipated schedule was to complete the conversion and he promptly responded that he would complete it over the weekend and put it in the mail on Monday. In amazement, I told him that would be great. Furthermore, he said he would put an invoice in the package and after I received the radio and made sure it was as agreed, send him a check.

I also inquired about the possibility of a discount, if I wanted to do a couple more conversions on the same year, make and model radio, to which he promptly told me he would gladly work with me on a reduced price and he appreciate the business.

The company is:

Jim's Sales & Service
Jim
618-526-8492 (shop)
[email protected] (e-mail)

They do the FM conversion, add RCA jacks for a CD changer, iPod or MP3 player and speaker leads for two front channel speakers and two rear channel speakers. Everything on the face of the radio appears stock, which is what I am after.

The price is around $400.00, which is a little steep, however I spent a lot more on one of the Auto Sound USA-6 units, that doesn't look stock, and a 5 disc changer that is under the passengers seat. The sound is marginal and the first one I had took a poop on me within 3 months with very little use.

I will follow up with the final results.

ChevyTruck - Thanks for the info. Its very rare for me to trash a vendor. They really have to work to P me off. Right now I think I would just like to have my radio back in one piece, hoping that it was a quality restoration. Believe me, I'll be beating them up on the pricing though. The only feedback I've got from these guys is when I called them. That ain't right.

Oh, BTW -- here's what the site you mentioned has posted:

I'll check their worldwide list later

Thanks,

Don

Don:

I knew they didn't do the conversion at that location, that is why I added check the Dealer Locator for a dealer near you or use the dealer I worked with. I felt like the link was very informative, as well as providing some excellent pictures.

When locating a dealer, distance is not much of an issue because with a USPS, Flat Rate box you can send your radio anywhere in the country for the same price regardless of weight and destination, as long as it will fit in the box.

Tony

Tony - Great site with lots of ideas and food for thought. As always thanks for the feedback and links.

Don

down2sea, I think I would call D&M once more to see if you can get satisfaction. If they still won't cooperate call the credit card company and put the charge into dispute. That will usually stimulate some reaction. I ordered some items from a vender a year ago. I only got 1/2 the order. After 23 phone calls and 10 emails without a response I put the charge into dispute. Within 2 days my card had been credited back the unshipped merchandise. I never did hear from them, no explanation or apology. If we as a community put up with poor service, and crappy merchandise nothing will change. Just my point of view. Jimmie.

I agree with jimmie, we spend a lot of hard earned on our turcks, if you donnt have , cant get, or it isnt really the right part(s) we me upfront. Dont waste my time, your time and get everyones hopes up trying to pass off something ill fitting, halfaxxed, just to put money in your pocket. I completely understand that maybe you cant do what you think you can do, just tell me this at the start not days, weeks, months later.Vendors beware, I know who makes stuff that works, and who's dont, and i aint a bit afraid to tell others. I thinking we may be to the point where they need use a little more than we need them.

Something strange going on with these guys at D&M. I spoke to the owner, Mike, 8 days ago and he said that he would be working on the radio over the weekend, and that he would call me back that afternoon. Of course no callback on Friday and nothing on Monday. I called again Tuesday and spoke to Matt (who I've spoken to on numerous occasions) and had to again describe the radio and problems. He said that I needed to speak to Mike but that he was going on vacation. Matt asked if I needed the radio soon and I reminded him that they had had it for over 6 months. He said that he would find out what was up and call me back. Of course he never did. So the beat goes on...

Don

I agree with 2 Many;
You should either get YOUR radio,done as YOU asked and they agreed to,or you should get YOUR radio and ALL your money back. Do you still have any of the emails you sent archived? If so,you should print 'em or copy 'em to a disc and save 'em somewhere safe;you might need them to disprove their claim that "you never asked for a 12 volt conversion." I think you've given them every chance to make this right,and they're blowing it off. (I'll bet they owe you about a pint of that expensive radio paint,too.I can't imagine they'd use a whole quart to paint one radio case.)
If it happened to me,I'd send a registered letter and tell them I'm not happy at all with their work or their business ethics,and I'm offering them ten days from the post date to either do the job RIGHT,or send my radio and remaining paint,properly sealed,back AND credit my account for all money I paid. I'd remind them that I contacted them by TWO different means to discuss what I wanted done,so it's not like they weren't told. I'd say I have my communications with them documented so if they want to fight it I'll have my attorney contact their attorney,and then it'll REALLY get costly for them to settle. Maybe I'd indicate I'd already made an inquiry to the BBB about them,so I guess I could call them AGAIN,let them know what transpired from this letter. I'd send them a COPY of the letter,also give one to my attorney (or save one for an attorney to be named later),and keep the ORIGINAL for my files.
Just be thorough,polite,and direct.Don't make threats,just tell what you're prepared to do if they don't comply. Man,I hate businesses that pull this s**t on good people! If I could go back in time,I'd be an attorney,and I'd represent people who get things like THIS done to 'em!
Speed

Be sure to ask them exactly "where" in the radio circuit the resistor is located. The WRONG way to do this is to put a high resistor in between the battery and the radio power lead... the correct way is to put a resistor in between the switched B+ supply in the radio.

There are two circuits inside the radio which are both switched by the on/off switch. One is the tube heater circuit and the other is the B+ supply.

The proper way to do a 12 volt conversion like this is to change all the tubes to 12v equivalents: 6V6=12V6, 6BE6=12BE6, etc. That way the radio operated exactly the same, but the tube filaments will light on 12v instead of 6. No problem.

The resistor is a must unless one is to rewind the B+ primary. Most GM radios can be adapted with a 2.5 ohm 100W resistor between the power switch and vibrator. This resistor is much smaller than one, say for instance, required to run the WHOLE radio, filaments and all! If I have a customer who is REALLY stickler, I'll track down a stock radio from a '57 or '58 chevy (which are a dime a dozen) and use the B+ transformer out of it.

I wouldn't jump down their throats just because they added a resistor to your radio... but it certainly should not be so big as to necessitate mounting to the firewall. I do many 12v conversions on stock radios and find that I can hide the resistor in the box somewhere.

Probably more information that you wanted to know, but from someone who does also does radios I can see both sides of this dilemma.

Justin,

Somehow I missed your post and want to thank you for the valuable information. Believe me, its certainly not more than I want to know.

I received the radio back today and externally it looks okay, although its beyond me why they put some rusty screws back on the cover and painted over the SN. The owner did discount the job by a $100 since they didn't do the conversion as I requested.

Take a look at the restored radio photos here. As you can see they supplied me with a BAR (Big arse resistor) for mounting on the firewall. Your solution seems much more elegant to me and leaves me wondering why they didn't go that route.

I did ask repeatedly why they didn't convert the filaments to 12V and the owner told me several times that it was "very very difficult" on this particular radio. If you take a look at the pre-restoration photos what do you think?

I'll take the cover off later and see what exactly they did inside.

Thanks again for your detailed response.

Don

Just took the cover off and now I'm even more dismayed. Frayed wires, a wire hanging loose, still dusty, etc. The detents were not repaired either. Inside views of "Restored" radio

This sure is a disappointment after going to all of the effort of shipping the bezel back and forth for chroming (my shop), providing paint, and waiting over 6 months. :mad:

Sometimes it doesn't pay to disturb things that are functional and solid even though they may look bad. However there appears to be an original wax covered paper type capacitor in there. That should have been replaced. Now they may have just clipped it out of the circuit. Your radio is old enough that it may be difficult or impossible to get 12v versions of some of the tubes. This is not the case for the 47 to 53 radios. Some of the early 6 v tubes were not produced in the 12 v version.

truckernix - I agree and understand that some things are best left alone, especially the old and frail. It just appears that the innards could have been tidied up a bit more and a little more care taken in checking the wiring and components. If you take a look at this photo , that I took before I cleaned the radio, you'll notice a flat bent brass dohickey just to the left of the coiled wire. That dohickey went missing while the radio was vacationing in S.C. Here is the photo showing no dohickey . Now, I have no idea what function that part used to perform, but hope its like a tonsillectomy and isn't something really needed and can be removed without problems.

I apologize for this rant but the outcome is not what I envisioned. Hopefully, Justin will visit this thread again and give me his input on the BAR vs. his solution.

Don

I would guess that it was some type of clamp to hold a few wires in place. Have you tried the radio out yet?

No problemo Don.

I have to agree, finding 12v equivalents for these earlier radios can be difficult or impossible... sometimes there was no 'direct' replacement.

At times what I've done is rewired the filament circuit so that a 'pair' of tubes with identical filament current ratings are wired in series. For example, if the radio uses 2 78 tubes, I'll wire their filaments in series so they will run on 12v. 6A7s go to 12A7.. and instead of subbing the rectifier tube I'll usually wire in some silicon diodes with an inrush limiter.

They did a fantastic job on the radio aesthetically! But what good is a restored car with a clapped out engine? Frankly I'm not very meticulous when it comes to making the inside of the radio chassis look pristine, so this I can understand but the inside does look rather sloppy. (Like they waited a couple of days before they shipped it back to you to do the WHOLE thing.)

Justin,

Looking at my old radio is what you are suggesting about wiring filament circuits in series doable? How about the resister between the power switch and the vibrator, is this doable? Have you ever tackled a job like this particular radio? Any suggestions since you stated that the BAR on the firewall was a definite no no?

As far as the exterior goes... I supplied the paint and had the chrome work done myself.

Thanks,

Don

Yes and Yes. There's also a possibility of subbing in a new B+ transformer, eliminating the resistor altogether; I like to do that whenever possible.

I've responded to your PM Don.