The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop Camshaft Information

Hi Guys,

Sometime back I posted some questions about an Elgin cam and lifter kit that JC Whitney was selling for around $100 bucks. They called it a fuel saver, and said it was "an excellent choice for towing." The over all description sounded like an RV or mild performance cam, but they did not list any specs. Well JCW discontinued that cam, and I never did get any satisfactory answers, and when I ask at the NAPA store in town the smart mouth kid at the counter claimed he had never heard of Elgin. He also said the only way to get a performance cam for a 250 six would be through Comp cams or Crane or one of the other high dollar companies. Prices run from $150 up w/o lifters. Well not surprisingly the kid at the N ever A ny P arts A vailable counter was wrong.

NAPA markets the same cam under the Clevite brand name. I do not know if Elgin makes them or not, but the folks at Elgin gave me all the specs, and they are identical with NAPA part #KITK2065
Duration at .050 is 194/204, gross lift is .491, and lobe centers are 105/115. The perfect cam for a mild 250 street engine! If you look under Camaro rather than Pick Up Truck, they list this cam and one a bit lumpier at 224 duration @.050 and .509 gross lift.

So then, an Isky cam with similar specs and high performance lifters, valve springs, and cam bearings would have cost around $250. Other brands about the same or higher. This set-up from NAPA will come in at around $188. On my budget that is a meaningful amount of money.

Here in ST Helens it's either the NAPA store, or drive 40 miles to Portland. Now here's the rub; I used to stand in this store drinking a Nehi Orange and holding my father's hand while waiting for him to get parts for whatever stovebolt or small block he was juicin' up at the time, so there's history; a strong connection between me and that store. However, since the old timers who once dominated the local NAPA store have all retired and the 2nd generation owner is getting older and working less, I am learning that the best way to use a NAPA store is to circumvent the knotheads at the counter by going to the web site. Then when I go to the store I just say, "Listen up junior! Here's what I want!"

Who knows; maybe I'm just gettin' old and goofy.

:mad: Bob

Fleetside Here is the main problem with most parts store. The kid behind the counter gets paid the same to say yes as he does to say no. That and most of the kids that get into the automotive industry think they know it all just cause they helped a budy do this or that. I spent 12 years selling aftermarket auto parts. Everyday you had the oppertunity to learn something new or at least that was my attitude. Many of my long time customers new tons more then I did, and I knew it. So did they. But when they needed a part I was the guy that stood behind my motto, "If we can't get it you don't need it!" Only stumped once in 12 years!

Your are correct in checking the website first. Be armed with all the knowledge that you can.

I would suggest this, go to the store manager / owner and tell him that you want to be a loyal customer but they (countermen) have to treat you as such. In todays market you have too many option available to you as a consumer. Let him know that you will not tolerate some young upstart trying to tell you this or that when you know different. Then ask him which Counter guy should you be talking too. I wish you luck and a lot of patients!

fleetside,

I have the JC Whitney cam in my 292. Works pretty good. Smooth idle. Numbers are about the same as the NAPA cam - the lift is .464 intake and .490 exhaust but the duration is the same. I was able to keep up with a new Jaguar sedan a couple of months ago on the entrance ramp to the local interstate. Good torque from 2000-4000 rpms. Probably not much better than the stock cam on top end. I currently run an Offenhauser intake and 500 cfm Edelbrock 4 barrel for induction and long tube headers for exhaust. I'm contemplating using the Clifford water-heated 4 barrel intake and Clifford shorty headers I have in my garage to see if I notice a big difference in the top end.

Your budget...??? Come on man! Who the heck are you trying to kid...??? You know you're a trillionaire a BILLION times over! :p

-ftyler

I must be lucky - I have a Napa store within 2 minutes of my house with a "kid" who actually knows his stuff. (OK so he's probably my age or a bit younger.) I come in looking for 6V light bulbs and he knows which page they're on...

And if they don't have it, 30 minutes from the main Sacramento distributor. If they don't have it in stock, it probably isn't made anymore. There's also a "youngster" (a few years older than me) who knows his stuff.

The key is to know when those guys are working the counter.

-Boyo

Boyo --- You're right. One of the keys to good service is getting the right counter guy, but one of my favorites retired and the other is the owner who recently underwent a triple bypass. It is frustrating to me that I have to get online and search so I can tell the NAPA boys what the NAPA part numbers are! Oh well, maybe I ought to think of it as a character building opportunity!
Bob

The other day I was in Napa and the counter guy yelled for another counter man. When this lady showed up I said to him, shouldn't that be counter person? She really liked that and when I was a little over $1 short for my brake pads she let me have it any way.

Are all Napa stores no checks?

Hey ftyler!
Right now I can't tell ya if it was a brain fart, a typo, or both, but the NAPA cam is 464" Valve Lift, Intake, .490" Valve Lift, Exhaust. Same as yours. I betcha Elgin is making the NAPA "Clevite" cam. So what is your gearing and tranny. I can't make up my mind if I want 343, 373, or keep my 411's. I have the 3 speed saginaw with the lowest gears. Payday I'm getting one with the higher 1st and 2nd. That might make my decision a little easier. Right now 1st and 2nd are next to worthless except 1st will light up the tires pretty good

fleetside,

I have 3.73 gears in the back and a New Process 4 speed overdrive tranny. Makes for absolutely effortless cruising at 70 mph in OD (about 2200 rpms).

I personally have always liked the idea of a 4 speed manual transmission for vintage/streetrod vehicles. This transmission keeps the vintage feel yet lets me ride in the far left lane for hours on end with ease. Even 80 mph is only about 2600 rpms! Way kewl.

-ftyler

I'am running the same cam grind in my 250. It works OK and has a slight rough idle to it. I recently changed to a 3.08 rear gear running thru a turbo 350 automatic. I to can cruse 70 or 80 all day long at 2500 rpm. Its hangs in each gear a little long than it did with the 3.42 axle, but will glady give up some low speed power for the highway rpm. Joe

Based on what you guys are saying about your gearing, it may be that the 343 ( or is it 342 ) gears will be my best bet. One of the things I am shooting for is to have 2nd gear work more or less like passing gear in an automatic. I spend a lot of time on two lane state and county roads, and when some one wants to drive like a grandma I'd like to be able to just kick 'er down in second and fly by them. With the current tranny and butt gears the engine is absolutely screaming at 60 in 2nd. I'd like for 2nd gear to work real good between 50 and 70 mph. So, do you guys think the 343 and the tranny with the higher 2nd will make that happen. ( Of course I'm talking about after my rebuild.)

Bob

With my 3.42 and automatic, 70 was about the limit of speed for any length of time. I run 235/75R15 radials so at 70 it was about 3000 rpm. I wouldn't have to down shift, it was already in its power band, just push it down and go. Joe