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Hey guys quick question,

I am going to pick up a 3 speed manual w/overdrive this weekend out of a 62 chevy car for my 66 PU. It has the pull cable for the overdrive. Anyone have any bad info on this tranny or reason not to use it?

Thanks,
Mike

Only question that I can think of is what gear ratios the tranny will have.

For a (negative) example, see This message

I installed one in my '61 Apache 10. As my truck isnt fully re-assembled yet, I've had limited use of it. But so far, so good.
The best thing was the strait swap for the old Muncie that was in there. No driveshaft mods necessary. If you intend to wire it up as the factory did, make sure you get all the associated stuff from the donor car that you can.
There's alot of good info at www.speedprint.com/deves50/Howtos.html
scroll down to "drivetrain related" and click on the Borg Warner overdrive link. All the wiring diagrams, operating manual, etc. are there in pdf format. Good luck with it.

I have one and I love it! This model has a non-synchro 1st gear, just use the 2nd or 3rd synchro to stop the transmission before putting into 1st. Never start out in overdrive! If you take one of these apart you'll see what I mean.

I have rebuilt mine and she's a daily driver now for 4 years. Once you get used to it you will love it too. Regards, Cosmo.

Where can I find one of these? My friends and I have owned many old Chevys and I have never seen an overdrive tranny in any of them. Are they hard to find?

Cosmo,

I picked the tranny up last Saturday and everything seems to be in great shape. I hope to put it in my truck this weekend but seem to have a problem. The donor car is long gone so I have none of the original hardware that goes with the tranny. I have two wires coming out of the L/S solenoid and 1 from the R/S solenoid. I have read the attachment on one of the other posts but still seem to be a little lost in the sauce in the wiring. So can you tell me how you wired yours up to make it work? Thanks for the help,

Mike

Mike - look here: scroll down about 2/3 to RPO 315 - for the car but should be the same for the basics

Bill

A 66 truck would have Saginaw 3 spd if it was originally a 3spd job.a True 62 OD trans is a Muncie design,it'll bolt in no problem,the length is the same.However,the output spine on a Saginaw is fine like a TH350 tranny,the Muncie has a course spline,gotta swap the yoke,no problem.And the column linkage if used will need reworking

Mike, I just wired a hot line off the ignition to the solenoid (that's the driver's side thingy) the device on the pass. side of the tranny is the governor, which I do not use. When I bought my trans. I didn't get any of the kick down switches or wires to the governor. I made the decision to do my shifting manually. On a true, original od system the od automatically 'kicks down' from 'overdrive 2nd gear' to 2nd gear @20 mph. Additionally, say you are cruising along in 3rd od at 65 and you want to pass, the 'kick down' switch is activated when you floor it (located under the accelerator pedal) and will engage 3rd gear for passing.

I have an idiot light wired in-line to remind me NOT to start out in overdrive, the light and the overdrive solenoid are activated by a pull switch in the "T" throttle position on the dash.

You'll also need a pull cable to attach to the OD LOCKOUT. When pulled in the OUT position, this enables you to use your transmission as a regular 3-speed, NO overdrive possible.

When in the IN position the trans. is OD-capable, is freewheeling, (= NO engine braking unless in Overdrive gear). I can actually use my set-up as a 6 speed transmission...1st, 1st od, 2nd, 2nd od, 3rd, 3rd od.

One question none of us asked is what ratio rear end do you have? Mine is a 3.90 which is ideal for this OD, OD= .70, ergo, .70 x 3.90 = 2.73 great for highway cruising @ 65-75 mph which I do frequently. Mind your tire size as well which also affects your final drive ratio.

Hope this helps, takes awhile to get used to, but you will love it when you do. P.S., you WON'T be loaning out your truck unless you pull out the lock out cable and instruct the driver to just "...drive her like a normal 3-speed and don't bother with anything else." The normal 3-speed function is great when hauling a big load of firewood (which I've done) and you need the engine braking and don't plan to travel at high speed. It's just like having 2 transmissions!

You really need the original electrical hookup, or a clone, for the unit to work right. There are two electrical devices on the transmission, a "governor" which keeps the OD disengaged below 30 MPH (depending on final drive ratio), and a solenoid to engage the OD. The cable, as mentioned before, is a lockout to allow engine braking going downhill, etc. BTW, don't trust the transmission to act as a lockup for parking in gear, unless you put it in reverse. Under some situations, the car can roll away, even if it's left in gear.

There needs to be a kickdown switch, an idle position sensor switch with both normally-open, and normally-closed positions, and a relay to operate the transmission solenoid. All these things can be duplicated with easily-available electronic-supply store parts, if you have a wiring diagram to follow. Original-equipment parts are scarce, especially the relay box.
Jerry

The stock relay is nothing more than a horn or lighting relay,an item easily gotten at any parts store. The solenoid is required for OD engagement,and as mentioned the lockout mechanism,the small lever on the tail housing,locks up the tranny so it operated exactly like a regular transmission.Best to have the OD locked out when doing burn outs,lol.
Like Cosmo, I run an OD tranny,a unit I put on a Saginaw car 4 spd.Instead of the dumb switch on the accelerator linkage,use a simple on off switch to bump the unit out or in OD at your command.I use the governor in the control circuit, but it's not totally necessary if ya always remember not to use OD in first gear.The reverse lock out is necessary,as the vehicle will not reverse if in OD cause of the overrunning clutch.

Thanks for all the replies. My dad is a big Studabaker fan and talking with him found out that I can pick up the relays and even the wiring harness through them. They used the same unit and one of the parts companies still makes the parts.

I have found out that this will not be a direct bolt in. My tranny is 17" long and the new tranny is 21 1/2" long. I will have to cut the drive shaft and I will have to do something with the linkage. The gear in the rear end is a 3.73 so I will be good there.

Thanks,
Mike

There is a guy that makes an easy to wire harness. He sales his kit on Ebay.

This is what he wrote:

Electrical control kit for three speed manual transmissions with electric overdrive. This kit can replace the kickdown, relay, governor, and wiring harness (all the electrical components other than the solenoid). If you have an overdrive that is not working or if you are converting from a three speed to a three speed with overdrive this electrical kit can solve your problems. This is the kit that was described in the September 2, 2004 issue of OLD CARS Weekly Magazine & Marketplace in the Q&A section.

This kit can replace (eliminate the need for) the stock kick down switch, the relay, and the governor on 1949 and newer 3-speed manual with electric overdrive transmissions for all American made cars and trucks operating on 12 volts. Detailed easy to follow instructions for wiring and overdrive operation are included. Three different wiring plans are provided for the user to select the one of his choosing.


They are as follows:



1. Allows Manual Engagement and Disengagement At Any Speed (Provides 6 forward speeds)

2. Provides Automatic Disengagement Under Approximately 30 MPH (and does not allow overdrive operation under over approximately 30 MPH)

3. Provides Automatic Disengagement Under Approximately 30 MPH AND the Option Of Manual Operation by merely flipping a switch from manual to automatic (allows operation changing from plan one to plan two and vice versa by merely flipping a switch on your vehicle dash.



This kit can be used to update a vehicle currently having overdrive or when converting to overdrive. In all cases a working solenoid is needed, version two and three require a working governor. Version one eliminates the need for a governor. Kit includes relay, switches, electric wire, pilot light, fuse, connectors, easy to follow installation directions, as well as simple explanation of the overdrive operation and major components. All parts in the kit will operate on 6 volts except the relay. Option one (described above) can be implemented without a relay on 6 or 12 volts.



This kit works on Chevrolet, Ford, Mercury, Studebaker, Nash, Jeep, Willys, and others. Some of the componets may appear different than in the picture.
Check this out:
http://motors.search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZwidall


I ordered one for my 41. Real nice guy, answered all my questions and helped me a lot to understand ma OD

Frank

Frank: do you have his email address? Currently he is not selling on Ebay. Thanks, Don

Don, I just got one from him yesterday. I think he offers them one at a time. Here's the ebay link for the one I got with the pertinent info

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4545276705

Hope I don't offend anyone, but that's about 10-15 bucks worth of parts for 49 bucks.

I'm not offended, Tony. I'm paying for the $35 of instructions 'cause I don't have the electrical knowledge you do or the time to become an expert. My Dad had a 1st class radio license and he designed a $300 transformer/computer mainframe interface that Westinghouse was charging the power company he worked for $5000. I mentally kick myself in the butt everytime I think about times he wanted to impart this kind of knowledge to me when I was a youngster and I always had something "better" to do. I'm paying for it now.

I'm guessin our ebay gent is sellin THIS or a variant without the kickdown switch and maybe some of the lights.

Ebay gent doesn't appear to be copyrighted (wisdom if above is true). If it's not copyrighted-- why don't you guys let us know if it's a variant of the Burb Club deal. I'm thinkin he obtains on demand over/underdrive as I do and Burby does by interruptin the coil--hence no need for a microswitch (kickdown) at the carby although I'm sure the kickdown would be nice to have.

Larry, I would and will provide simple to follow wiring diagrams for the price of a 37 cent stamp.
If you can change distributer points,you can wire the OD,it's that simple.
In fact I'll tell ya right here,get a 12 volt relay,like the one used for headlights,I'm assuming here you all have 12 volt negative ground systems.Find a place to mount the relay,hanging from the speedo cable under the dash by a ty wrap works just fine. If you don't have a speedo cable,you can actually screw it to the kick panel,lol.Run a 14 gauge wire from the fuse box or other always hot situation,(battery,starter connection).That wire goes on the "line" terminal on the relay,fuse it for 15 or 20 amps.Then from the load terminal of the relay run a wire to the OD solinoid terminal. Most solinoids have two terminals,to find the right one,temporaraly hook a wire from the battery positive,touch it on one of the screws.If you got it right,you'll hear a load click,50/50 change of being right the first try,lol.The other terminal on the soliniod is for the ignition cut,something you're not using.Now on the relay there are two terminals used to energize the contact closing coil.Take a wire from one ot those terminals to the terminal on the OD governor if it's being used,this wire is grounded by a speed sensative flyweight gizmo when the vehicle hits 25-30 MPH.Most gus also add a light to this circuit that illunminates when the governor is doing it's job..The other contact coil terminal goes to side of the igniton switch that's hot when the key is on.If you want manual control of the solinoid,cut a single throw,single pole switch into the wire running to the governor.You are finished,20 feet of stranded wire,a 6 buck relay,a few ty wraps and crimp electricial connectors.
If you don't run a governor like Cosmo,then ya only need the solenoid circuit controlled through a single pole single throw switch,no relay needed.
You may want to disconnect the battery first to avoid unwanted sparks.

Tony's got the scoop - and to make it easy if ya want it to look original, the repo dealers carry the correct wiring harness for 55-65 cars and trucks, like Carter for one - EL-151, $22.05 - I got one from GoldenState years ago when they were cheaper, like about 12.95 also got a solenoid and relay back before they disappeared and kickdown switches can be adapted from a whole bunch of modern apps
does sound like this guy has just put together info and parts available to anyone, and is makin a wage for watchin ebay and shipping stuff - and buzzin, the copyright belongs to GM!

Bill

@ Buzzn

I think this one is way different from the "Burp" setup. I looked at it since a view months and decided I want an simper wiring (most of it because I can not interrupt the coil because of my special Thyristor ignition).

The "Burp" diagram shows 4 switches (and I don´t want to perforate my dashboard like swiss cheese - or do it with an extra plate) the "ebay guy" uses only one switch (at least in my case)

Also the Burp setup offers more combinations(as far as I understand)

Though I´m sure I cold do the cable work by my self I was looking for an bolt in (sic) instalation.

Frank

Yachtcare: Can you verify this address?
www.speedprint.com/deves50/Howtos.html

I couldn't get it to work.

Thanks

Since I'm am electrician ,this wiring is very simple for me.Actually,vehicle wiring is easy to understand if you approach it with an open mind.It's clean,requires few tools and you you won't get shocked on the 12 volts.
These typical Borg Warner OD's only need two external inputs to operate,a wire with battery voltage to the solinoid with a switch and the cable for the mechanical lockup,all the rest is uneeded for basic operation.The various additional wiring makes the system more user friendly,but not necessary for basic function.
My suggestion is use the basics to check it out,nothing more than some crude wiring and a cable.If it works ok, add the details at a later date.

Many thanx, Tony. This is a great thread. I've read the stuff at the "burb" which is where Deve's PDF files come from. My old '59 Chilton's manual has an overdrive section on these transmissions also. I got a tranny last week from Gwyn Reedy in the swap forum. He delivered it when he had a South Florida run in his big rig. I have to tear into it to find out how usable it is. That project is somewhere down the road and I'm gathering info and external parts at this point.

[img]http://www.laroke.com/larryk4674/2005/bb042305at.jpg[/img]

Larry,Cosmo has some experience with OD as well as me.They are quite simple if you take the time to see how it works.Other than the tranny mainshaft,the trans front section is the same as any old Muncie 3 spd.The main wear area is the overunning clutch,so check it closely,feel free to email me or send me your phone number,I'll call weekends when I have free cell phone calling.

Thanx Tony. It'll be some time before I dig into it. I'll give you a heads up when I'm getting near. Looks like I'll have to swap side covers on the transmission itself since the shift arms are in a different config from the old chevy AD locations.

Larry, I have a cell to call you (with lotsa minutes) if you need any help in the future with that OD. I have a good (I think) source for a full bearing kit in the Northwest, if I can rebuild one of these little beauties...(fill in the remainder of the statement.)

As I've said at least 10x, I love that little transmission. I too thought I would have to find a side cover with a different configuration for the shift arms... then I started thinking about where I really needed them to be.

I ended up making my own shift arms for two reasons:

-I wanted to shorten the shift throw
-I needed to have both shift arms on top

I ended up shortening the shift arms by an inch-and-a-half, thereby reducing the throw (the distance travelled between the 1st and reverse, 2nd and 3rd gear stops.

There are places in Hemmings to find a place to have your solenoid rebuilt, mine works so I don't need it fixed. Tony, please chime in with the inner workings of the solenoid and what could go wrong. I know that it's job is to sustain an extension of a small rod that allows the od sun gear to engage.

Hopefully more to come folks, stay tuned to this station.

twe, try it without the "how to" part. www.speedprint.com/deves50/ then click on the "how to" link on the left.

Yacthcare, thank you sir!!!

Thanx Cosmo, I'll keep it in mind. That shift rod surgery idea is rolling around in my brain now like a hot rivet in the catcher's bucket