The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop New Engine Starting Problem

Hey, somebody let me know if I'm having fun yet!?!

I just rebuilt & reinstalled the 283 in my 58 Chevy Apache. Everything is new (except, of course the block & heads) including a new HEI distributor. I'd like to track down the GM engineer who designed that engine with the distributor in the back of the block against the firewall, but that's another story!

Anyhow, with a fresh charge on the battery, I tried to turn it over and while it rolled OK, I couldn't get it to fire. Good fuel pressure & flow. Gas in the carb. Even had oil pressure (let the church say hoorah!)

Having read prior posts along this line, I pulled the distributor & rotated the rotor 180 degrees thinking that I may have had it in backwards. I tried it again but other than a few pops & grunts this time, still nothing.

I need a few recommendations from you real mechanics on what to check or look for - either that or a recommendation of a good calibre weapon to put myself out of misery!

THX for any help.

Is it getting spark? Does it have good compression? If valves are too tight or cam timing is off, it will not have enough compression to fire. Others will chime in with more ideas.

Phil

OK, first things first- - - - - -is it making a spark? Pull a plug wire and use a spare spark plug to see if it can develop enough voltage to fire the plug. Just make sure you don't hold onto the plug while you're checking! The HEI system is supposed to develop at least 50,000 volts on open circuit, so it should make a healthy spark. If it's weak, or there's none at all, you'll need to check on the 12 volt supply to the distributor cap. This wire needs to be a #10 size, directly from the ignition switch, with no ballast resistor. The thin, silver-colored wire that used to supply the + terminal of the coil for the point-type distributor is a resistance wire, and must be bypassed to run an HEI system. If there was a ceramic resistor in the primary circuit, trash that one, too!

If the HEI is a new unit, it will probably work OK with the right voltage input. If there's still no spark, swap it for another distributor. Be sure the cylinder that's on compression is the one that's getting the spark by pulling a plug, cranking the engine with your thumb over the hole, and making sure the distributor rotor is pointed at the right cylinder when you feel compression. Set the timing just like you would with a point-type dizzy.
Jerry

OK. Looks like I gotta get some kinda book because I can't verify that the original set up was correct.

The dist cap has the wire from the distributor to it - can't much screw that one up. The wiring under the hood is "barnyard engineered" so it's a bit tuff to figure out. There are two elec clips on the cap outboard of the connection for wire from the distributor. One is marked BAT and one is marked TACH. I have the wire from the TACH cnnection running thru the firewall, presumabley into the ignition.

The wire from the BAT connection goes to some kinda electrical block mounted on the firewall where it splits to run two different directions in a harness.

I thought I might have connected these two wires to the incorrect terminals on the dist cap but because of the connectors, they seem to only hooup one way.

Whew! This electrical stuf beats me black & blue!

No spark. Can I hook the dist wire marked BAT directly to the hot terminal of the battery then crank the engine over?

BTW - here's how I solved the "how the hell can I crank it over & watch the plug" problem. 5/8 combination wrench - box end around the the plug wire, open end wedged & taped into the hood slot. Just in case anybody else has to do this by themselves.

You should run the wire from the ignition switch to the bat. term. Do not hook anything to the tach term. it is for tachometer hookup. You can run a hot wire to the bat term. for testing purposes. You may have fried the module hooking full voltage up to the tach. term.

Tach terminal runs into the cab. should be OK, I didn't mess with it. (not because I didn't try but because the connectors only hook up one way! I thought maybe it went to the ignition but I was just being a tad more stupid than usual.

I'll try hooking up the batt wire from the dist directly to the battery cable & see what happens.

You are saying that I can go directly from the distributor to the hot terminal on the battery, correct?

Yes, you can go straight from the battery to the BAT terminal on the distributor. There's a 3-wire connector from the distributor housing to the cap. Be sure that one's plugged in. The TACH terminal can be left disconnected unless you need an engine speed reference like for a tuneup tester, etc., or you have an electronic tacheomter installed. For now, just run straight 12 volts from a known good source to the dizzy, crank the engine, and see if it sparks.
Jerry

Alrighty then! I got juice & it's tryin' to start. I'll try putting the rotor back in the original position & see if I can light it off.

Definately on the right track now! THX.

I'll probably be back as this tale of woe unfolds further.

I will assume you have hydralic lifters? If so, don't set them to tight, the lifters have to "pump up" with oil before you can really set them properly. For the start up setting I always would bring the cylinder up to firing and set each valve by itself,slowly turn the adjuster nut, while turning the pushrod with your thumb and index finger, when the pushrod gets snug you're good to go.Start it up, run for about 20 minutes @ 2000rpm to break in the cam and lifters, then check your timing and set the idle and then reset the valves. With the engine running around 800/900 rpm, slowly loosen each adjuster till you hear the clacking noise then tighten till it stops and then go another 1/4 turn on the adjuster. put the valve cover back on and leave it alone. reset the idle.

Alrighty then, I jumpered the dist to the battery hot lead as I said above. I have spark. I know this because I'm blowing flame back up thru the carb.

Is this an indication that I have the rotor 180 out of phase? Or is it just a timing issue?

Well, you're definitely out of time. Try the thumb over the plug hole trick, and see if the rotor is pointing at the cylinder that's compressing. If you do it on #1 cylinder (driver's side front), the timing marks will line up at the same time. That happens twice, however, once on #1 compression, and also on #6, so be sure and check for compression as well as timing mark alignment.
Jerry

HRL - No doubt it's out of time. I'm working alone so the thumb trick & turning it over is a bit difficult. (Besides, as you can probably tell from my posts, my thumb is otherwise employed!)

I guess I'm trying to determine if I should first just fool with the timing or yank the dizzy again & move the rotor 180 before I fool with the timing?

OK, here's a surefire method to do it without thumbing for compression, but it involves pulling a valve cover. Pull the passenger's side valve cover, and watch the #6 cylinder valves. (3rd. pair from the front) When the exhaust valve is closing, and the intake is opening, the #6 cylinder is at the top of the exhaust stroke. At the same time, #1 will be at the top of the compression stroke, ready to fire. Line up the rotor toward #1, button everything up, and fire away. It WILL run, and will only need a final timing adjustment.
Jerry

Well dang HRL! That did it. It's alive!

The old girl finally fired up. Couldn't keep it running, but I'll get the timing tweaked in. First I gotta go get the battery recharged so I have enuff juice to re-start it.

Now, how about that wire I have jumpered from the dist to the hot post of the battery - can I leave it like that without doing any harm until I grow enuff hair to replace the wiring?

Man, I better pick up some shades while I'm out - that light at the end of the tunnel is gettin brighter by the minute!

Bob,

You can leave it hooked up like that as long as you never intend to turn the engine off

Brian

Yep, at least put a switch in it, or unplug it when it's time to turn the engine off! One heavy wire from the "run" terminal of the ignition switch to the distributor BAT. terminal is all you really need. The rest of the wiring, starter, etc., will work as is.
Jerry