The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area General Truck Talk New guy with 4x4 question

This site has been a great source of information for a plan that I've been brewing. I want to build a period-looking 4x4 1941-47 or 1947-55. I'm guessing parts will be easier to find for the 1947-55. I've seen some frame swaps done, and later NAPCO trucks, but I want to try something different. Why can't I use a stock frame and engine, and mate a later transmission with transfer case (I figure some crossmember work will be needed). Later axles can be swapped in, though I realize there are issues with modern axles being too wide. I figure a full width modern axle (with perches located appropriately) on the rear if I use a flat or dump bed as I'd like to. The front axle could be a narrowed full-size truck axle, or something smaller from a Jeep or such. I just need the axle ratios to match. Modern (or semi-modern) axles should provide some improved top speed.

What am I missing? I could use some experienced input. Waiting to buy a donor truck until I've got everything mentally worked out. Has anyone done this? Thanks in advance!

Scott

You could use the stock chassis, with some modifications. I would suggest looking up information for the early Napco to see how they were set up. Advanced Adapters can help with the transmission/transfer case, they have an adapter that will allow for using an sm420 with a 205 t-case. You will have to put at least 12" lift to get axles to clear the oil pan in the front, the rear isn't really a problem for clearance at the bed. If you are concernad about axle with, Dynatrac and Curry can make you axles in thee withs that you want, but they will be expensive.
You may want to checkaround for Napco conversion parts, Jim Carter's would be a good place to start. You will find that most of the '54 and earlier will be 3/4 and 1 ton, 1/2 wasn't availible 'til '55. Something you may want to consider is finding a complete chassis for a later 4x4, that way you can get matched axles, transfer case, and possibly springs that you can adapt to the stock frame.

I really think that your project will be easier and cheaper if you just swap to a newer chasis. Consider starting with a fullsize blazer or a shortbed pickup from 73-87. I think that it would be a good thing for several reasons. The newer frame brings with it a multidtude of niceties, like power steering, possible disc brakes, all of the 4x4 stuff in one useable chunk. You will also not have to source out parts that work together in the drivetrain. It seems a little less "pure" to do it this way, but I think that you will end up with a more funtional truck.

Fort Knox has the right idea if you want to keep it easy. You can find 4x4 chassis or even complete '70s/'80's trucks pretty cheap, go for the ones with the rotten bodies. I would suggest not usung a Blazer, however, they have a too short wheelbase (106"). The short 1/2 ton would fit better (117"). Put a flatbed on it with 1 1/2 ton fenders to cover the tires and some military ndc tires from Coker/Miller to get the nostagic look.

Thanks for all the input. Does anyone know if the widths of the early Chevy frames and the later 4x4 frames is close? Longbox55, I was really surprised to read how much lift on the front I'll need to clear the oil pan. I was thinking that the pumpkin will fit nicely to the side of the pan. Of course, this is all guessing because I don't have the pieces in front of me. If you all can excuse the Dodge photo, I'm wondering if this type of wheel has a name. This PW looks pretty close to what I'm picturing in my mind (minus the Dodge part and the $12K price).

[img]http://i19.ebayimg.com/04/i/07/75/f0/9f_12.JPG[/img]

I know where there is a 1942 chevy 1.5 military 4x4 for sale. e-mail me for the contact info. [email protected]

im not too sure about 47-55 but my 59 3200 sits perfectly atop a 1975 chevy 4x4 frame

Anything is possible to do. It just depends on your wallet size and ability.
I have to support Ft Knox on the swap to a newer chassis for the same reasons he stated. I have done 4x2 to 4x4 conversions before. I swore I'd never do it again, but I find myself dreaming of new ideas for them like a 60-66 on a late model GM IFS chassis. I have seen 41-46 GM's on S-10 4x4 chassis, AD's on a Jeep Wagoneer chassis, and a 36 Dodge on a 4x4 Dakota chassis. Gave them 4x4 ability without the hight.

I think a Jeep Wagoneer front axle would be an easy install. Steering might be a bit interesting though. For a frame swap try measuring out an earlier "full size" Jeep pickup complete frame. I think they are "flatter" (not such a big drop in the middle) than the Wagoneer frames and the wheelbase may be closer to what you want. Lots of kits for Chevy V8s to Jeeps.
Good luck and let us know what you do and how it goes!
Ter

Scott, We purchased a 53 chevy 1/2 ton on a 69 jeep wagoneer frame , with a jeep driveline. You can see pictures of it on our site. Sat at just the right height for us and ran real well. The steering was not what we liked,plus single bowl master cylinder with power front drum brakes. I found a later wagoneer front axle with disc brakes and power steering, and much improved turning radius.Didn,t feel confident at that time to swap out the front axle and such, so I took it to a mechanic friend who said he could do it. It sat in his garage in the back corner for 6 months. He gave it back to us and said it would be to much work to swap out. We then went in a different direction and bought a original 53 frame , learned how to do a mustang 2 front suspension, body off restoration etc. Probably could have done the wagoneer axle swap but didn't have confidence in our abilities at that point. We still have the wagoneer frame, jeep drive line, with all the mounting points for a 47 to 53 chevy 1/2 ton body, if you are interested in it. I did sell the newer axle, but the frame is in great condition with 3.73 axles, turbo400 trans an a jeep 360 engine. Coach Frank

Coach Frank:

Many questions follow:

I'm really impressed at how low you were able to get the 4x4 incarnation to sit. I've seen full-size truck swaps, and I hate the tires stick out ever so slightly beyond the fender. I appreciate the Jeep frame offer, but need to decline for now. I'm sitting for my state's bar exam in July, and plan to be dead broke for another year or so (which is why I'm planning now to take my overstressed brain away from studying). Please keep any comments regarding the profession to yourselves (insert that wretched smiley face here). How hard was it to make the cab mounts and attach them to the Jeep chassis? I wonder if that's easier than modifying an original Chevy chassis. The positioning of the wheels in the fenders looks just about perfect. Did you have to lengthen or shorten the chassis, or was it just good fortune? What was so strange about the Wagoneer's steering? Better or worse than what you would experience with a stock Chevy truck? Do you know what the weight rating (GVWR) of the Wagoneer is? I ask because I am intending to use this as a working truck. A one ton chassis would be ideal, but the issue or narrowing the axle presents itself. There are a lot of rotted out Wagoneers in the salty northeast, where I am. I would ideally like to find, or create via mixed components, a straight six manual transmission chassis.

Thanks for tolerating all the questions!

Scott, The cab mounts were on the frame when we bought the truck, look to have been professionally welded on. Axles were a perfect fit. You have to use wagoneer short base axles to get a good fit. I spent alot of time on the full size jeep site to get the info. The wagoneer axles of newer wagoneers are to long, I believe pre 1978 wagoneers are the right fit. A Wide turning radius on the wagoneer steering was the problem. A pre 78 wagoneer would have a much better steering set up.The frame was a little too long as you can see we had to cut the grille for the end of the springs. Covered up the hole with fog lights. Suspension was fine, 4 wheel lock out hubs worked great, truck sat at just the right height. My teenage son drove it to high school for 2 years, He now is graduating from college, he decided to go back to a 2 wheel drive vehicle. Whoever did the mock up and welding on the frame did a great job of maintaining the ride height and mounting points. Any other questions?

Scott in MA
Re:Wheel question (what are these wheels called on the Dodge 4 by 4?
Are those called "Military" wheels?
Ter

Those look like standard wheels to me. You're probly thinking of the "combat" rims that were used on military Power Wagons and Jeeps, along with other military vehicle. These are a split type rim that was bolted together with 8 bo;ts just inside were the wheel shell meets the wheel disk. These were intended to allow for quick installation of new tires in combat situations. I think that they are still using a similar type on the Humvee.

On the larger trucks that type of wheel is called a "Bud" wheel.