The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop cant get it in

No matter what i try i cant get my engine all the way in the tranny.The pilot alignment tool slides in efotlessly.My question is since im only puting the engine back in till i can get it overhaulled this spring is it safe to be standing on the front motor mount bolts or do i risk breaking them off.Thanks for your help...Ron

NO, :mad:

Ron,

Did you by chance put grease in the pilot bearing cavity? This could be acting as a hydraulic stop if your bearing is tight. Just a thought . . .

I wouldn't try to support the motor only on the front motor mount - it'll break.

Get a couple of big hammers and crow bars, smash your thumb with a hammer and then go at it again, it will go in and this is good training for becoming a curmudgeon.

No i didnt add any grease.As for the hammers i thought of that but where is it safe to pound?

Ron , have you had the nose off the front of the g/box ??
It is easy to replace the washers with ones too big on dia. that will hold the g/box back .
The nose (that the thrust brg slides on) is a close fit in the bell housing , It must be attached with the correct screws and washers .

Dusty,nothing was touched ob the tranny or bell housing.I even tred turning the engine over by hand in gear. rolled it abought 10 inches.

Slow Rider;
Do the number of splines on transmission
shaft match the number of splines in clutch
disc? Could parts man have givin' you the
wrong disc? Just a thought.

Everything im dealing with is original 1942.I removed the engine to blast and paint the frame. i need to get the engine in the frame for storage only till i can get it overhauled in the spring The only thing i havent put back in is the throw out bearing .would this cause my problem?

Ron,
Throwout bearing shouldn't keep it from
going together. Try taking two bolts that
will screw into bellhousing and cut the heads
off to help align transmission to bellhousing.

Is it possible that the clutch disc is in backwards? That is a problem many of us have been troubled with. Just an old memory.
Chb46

Ron

Is the crankshaft and trans input shaft in a strait line? Have you tried putting the trans in gear so it turns a little as you rock truck back and forth by pushing motor against trans?

Judd

This afternon i removed the motor again and easaly put a piolot alignment tool in and out. I thought that the engine and trany were a little out of alinment and moved the frame to straighten it out.Ieven tryed moveing the the cumalong forward and back on the chain hooked on the engine t o try different angels.I also tryed raising and lowering the tranny.Irolled the frame back and forth abought 10 inches by turning the motor over in gear and moveing the engine side toside wile pushing back with a pry bar.Im now going to try some jack daniels.Ive got to get the truck back in the garage before it snows again.My thoughts are to cut a couple of blocks of wood narower than the front mounting bolts but taller to take the pressure of the bolts. any and all input is greatly apreciated . Thanks...Ron

why not just leave all the clutch / pressure plate & flywheel out till the spring, and just bolt the tranni to the motor. :rolleyes:

Albert, ididnt fell confortable wrenching on it to re move the cluth and stuff with it suspended from the ceiling.Now for the good news.IFINALLY GOT THE DARNED THING IN.What a pain in the but.Iwas raising it to put some wood under to block it up so i could get it back in my shop and thought id try one more time tonight.This time i had a helper.while i turned the engine over in gear and moved the engine side to side i had my son on the prybar pushing on the engine.It finally went.Thank you to every one for all the great sugjestions.I hope i can count on your help in the future...Ron

Congrats Ron....Doesn't it feel good to work hard and win sometimes!!

darn STRAIGHT...It takes alittle presure off and i can once again look forward to going out to my shop again.It puts off that crumegedon feeling too. [img]http://wsphotofews.excite.com/005/ja/1a/Np/dU69292.jpg[/img] Youre all welcome to a cold one on me.

Slow...you have a Juke box and a pool table in your shop?? OR, do you just have your truck parked in your basement that has a garage door on it? :p

Wow,I've seen taverns with less cool stuff in them. When do you find time to "work" :p?
As for your problem, I once had a similiar experience. In my case, the pilot bushing had been mushroomed ever so slightly by the input shaft on the tranny during my first attempt at putting things together. Each effort after that just compounded the problem.

My shop is a freestanding building abought 30 yards from the house.Its my home away from home. Next to the juke is a portable bar wicth helps when problems arise. [img]http://wsphotofews.excite.com/020/XQ/Kc/oq/dS67184.jpg[/img]

[ 12-16-2001: Message edited by: Slow Rider...Ron Raatz ]
my progress pics

[ 12-16-2001: Message edited by: Slow Rider...Ron Raatz ]

Slowrider,

Trying to line an engine up with a tranny shaft is just plain torture! ('least it always is for me!)

Suggestion for your post-rebuild installation: remove the tranny from the chassis first. If your truck has a 3-speed, that's a light little gearbox and is a heck of a lot easier to fidget into place than a couple hunnerd pounds of stovebolt swingin' from the ceiling!
Engine in chassis first, then install the tranny.

'Nother tip: get yourself a couple of long bolts the same size as the tranny to bell housing bolts, and cut their heads off and put "screw-slots" in them to make:
Guide Studs!
Use them in place of the upper tranny bolts when re-installing the tranny, and it will help support the weight of the trans, leaving your hands free to "adjust" the angle of attack, as well as rock the u-joint yoke back and forth to line them splines up at the clutch plate!
Once you get the tranny seated and the lower bolts installed, then remove the guides and install the uppers.
(This trick also works when you've got a heavy 4-speed on a floor-jack! Good for cylinder heads too!)

Nice shop! I can't even move around in mine; and that's before all the junk ( I mean "treasure") went in!

Frank

Frank,thanks for the great tips.Its nice to have a forum like this where people share there tips and experience.With the collective help of others and a little luck, i may even get my truck put back together. Thanks again to all...Ron

Try reassembling a 10,000 lb tractor, with a 3000 lb engine on a splitting stand. Everything has to be lined up PERFECTLY in order for things to slide together correctly. Do not force things together, at most use MODERATE come-a-long pressure at the most. It should go all the way together before you put in a bolt to hold things together.

I have the best luck installing truck transmissions leaving the tranny in gear. You can apply light come-a-long pressure and turn the output shaft, which will turn the imput shaft and allow the splines to engage the clutch disk. Also, if you are installing a new pilot bearing, make sure it fits on the input shaft. Don't just look at it, try it on the shaft. Also, try the clutch disk on the input shaft. If nothing else, this is a mind game to play on yourself to prove that the tranny HAS to go on since the only things that could impede progress did indeed fit at one time.

uh, does this mean you guys are gonna rag me alittle for the satellite dish on the hillbilly garage?

On the subject of transmissons.Ive got a new clutch,pressure plate and throwout bearing. Is it recomended to replace the cluth fork?[Not sure if thats the right name,holds throwout bearing]Do these wearout?I intend to put a lot of miles on this truck when its done and want to do things the right way the first time.Other than adding hardened valves and seats when i have the engine gone over are there any other modifications recomended for the 216?As for the hill billy sattelite,ive got a tv out there but dont turn it on alot as my ocasional helpers[wife and kids] get to distracted. As always,thanks for your expertice...Ron

Racecarl,

You brought back memories from 25 years ago, helping Dad "split" the **** 9-N to put a new ring gear on the flywheel!

We're darn lucky no one got hurt!

The worst "line-up" situation I personally dealt with was in Mom's VW campmobile;
(don't miss working on that beast :mad: )

I would just like to ask if you charge for parking while you give haircuts. I have a TV and a cabinet full of magazines, but no barber chair.

Frank remember very well splitin the father inlaws 9N to change the ring gear. Tossed the flywheel outside in the snow and warmed up the ring gear a little with the torch poped it on with a wood block and hammer.Man this is a great site get to remember all that stuff we did many years ago.What was the name of those old english fords(big ones)the farmers had back in the late 60's ealy 70's remember waiting 3 weeks for a clutch with that thing restin on a couple blocks of wood.Studs work good to reinstall trans.
Ron that is one cool shop you got there.You dont normally have to change the throw out fork unless its badly worn or damaged.

[ 01-02-2002: Message edited by: Phat ]

Richard, if you let me give that haircut ill not only let you park for free ill throw a couple dimes in the jukebox for you.Id have to make up for the bad haircut some how... Phat,thanks for the coments and the fork info. Ron

Slow Rider, had my 216 proffesionally rebuilt last summer. Removed and re-installed as a unit so I had the tranny out. I replaced the clutch, pressure plat and TO bearing. Had the same problem you mention. Carefully granked the bolts down in rotation. It went, but slow. Following the installation, it occured to me that although the pilot tool lined up right, I think the problem was the clutch was slightly out of line. If I have to do it again, I'll start the bolts and put a pipe on the clutch lever and release the plate a couple of times during the process. The pilot tool is just not that exact and I think may allow just a wee bit of mis-alignment, enought to creat the problem you described and I experienced. Good luck.

I have pinball machine, juke box and fridge in the garage. Needless to say not a whole lot gets done, especially if I have help.

Pinball machine hmm... i knew there was some thing missing.Accualy ive been lookin for one for a while, i just havent found one in my price range. CHEAP!Most of my treasures were cheapo auction finds.I got the 1960 juke box and the barbers chair for 10 bucks.I did how ever put a couple hundred in the juke haveing the amp and selector rebuilt.The pop machines were 2 for 15 bucks.Only needed 1 so i gave the other to a buddy.Our house isint all that big so when we have get togethers the shop is where we head.We rcently celebrated newyears out there with our anual new years eve pool and darts tournamet.At easter ive got 6 familys out there haveing fun.[img]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid28/pd06787b93622c7347ace03de56ce1695/fdfced64.jpg[/img]

[ 01-23-2002: Message edited by: slowrider ]