The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area General Truck Talk Replacement roller wheel bearings

Decided to upgrade to roller wheel bearings on my '56. Got them from vendor (supposed to be for '47-'59) and installed races--tapped in solid, and greased bearings. Went to install bearings and rear seal. Seal won't go in far enough to seal--up solid against bearing.

Front backing plates and hubs on my truck are from '54 Chevy car so that I can run 5-bolt rallye wheels all around. Is this my problem? If so, ????

Hey Arch, You need to compare your old truck hubs to the car hubs and see if there are differences. A cheap pair of dial calipers may be all you need. Start by checking bore sizes and depths. You will also need to check the bearing width (or stack height) whichever applies. If you don't have dial calipers maybe one of the local bearing shops would provide some assistance, (like Bearing Headquarters or Precision Industries). I would guess that car hubs versus truck would be different.
If you don't get it figured out, send me an email, I work for a machine shop and would be willing to measure them for you.

Good luck
John

the TF truck and early car hubs are directly interchangeable, and the ball bearings and seals used in both are identical [brakes too]

Bill

No longer have the old wheels. Sold them when I did the restoration 3 years ago. If they are indeed identical, why won't these roller bearings work? BTW, also have an e-mail into Brother's where I got the bearings.

56pickup,

I don't think the seal will come up to the bearing tight...it's proper place would be flush with the back of the hub. You should actually be able to wobble the bearing around in the cavity between the race (cup) and seal. Look at the spindle, the location of where the seal runs and the location of where the bearing comes up against it's shoulder are seperated by a bit. I hope I am on the same "page" as you!


Stuart.

When I swapped '50 car hubs on my (long gone) '41 pickup I had to use a combination of car and pickup bearings to make it work. They may be directly interchangeable on a TF but they are not on an Art Deco.

Automarc, you are correct. That's my problem. The seal is hitting the rear bearing. Does anybody have a 6-bolt wheel with the bearings removed that they could mic to tell me if, in fact the hubs are different?

56picup,

I found these numbers in a '04 post by
Splashoil, I don't know if they are relevent to
your problem. If you go to MBS, they show specs on there brgs..I'm sure Timken does the same. If you test mounted the hub with clean bearings and no seal, you might get a better handle on what isn't right.


Inner seal: National #6064
Inner bearing and race: MBS #909052R
Outer race: Timken #LM11919
Outer bearing: Timken #LM11949


Stuart.

Much thanks, automarc. Am planning on sending back the kit parts I got from Brother's. Seem to be about 1/4 too deep dry. Really appreciate all the help you've all been able to provide. Classic Performance Products guy says he's used their kit on my application with success. Somehow, someway I'll make it happen. Good thing I'm not needing to get back on the road yesterday.

With your help and #'s I may be able to come up with something locally.

The MBS no. supplied seems to be a ball bearing number according to my local supplier. That would mean roller bearings in the front of the hub; ball bearings on the rear. Not good.

Does anyone have numbers for roller bearings and race for the rear front wheel bearings??

56picup,

I copied and pasted the MBS number in the google search bar. It brings up a link to their site where they show that number as being a tapered roller bearing. Their site shows no ball bearings. You might want to check the online site for MBS. Good luck.

Stuart.

Arch - 909052R should be a roller, and there was a thread quite some time back about them, but I didn't find any suggestions panned out

of course, none of the repro places will tell you what the numbers are on the bearings they sell, and I've never been able to find rollers the right size to fit correctly, tho I've mic-ed new ball bearings and had 2 major bearing places try to match the specs in a roller

considering that the trucks work fine w/ ball bearings and that there are some quality newer vehicles that use'em, rollers aren't an "upgrade" but a modification - no reason to prefer'em - let us know if you find some that work!

Bill

I'm still running ball bearings in all of my trucks, even the one that had an 8' plow on it with no problems. I agree with Bill, not really an upgrade in my opinion. Besides, you can buy a lot of ball bearings for the price of one of those special made tapers,
Scott

Stuart, I'm wanting to switch over to roller bearings but need numbers to order them from my local parts supply (figure they'll be lots cheaper then thru one of the catalogs)..are the the numbers you gave good for over-the-counter ordering?? Are those front or rear??

Inner seal: National #6064
Inner bearing and race: MBS #909052R
Outer race: Timken #LM11919
Outer bearing: Timken #LM11949

Larry - re-read Stuarts post - not his information, but from here - also see this thread

been cussed and discussed here a number of times over the years, and as I said above, after much research I was unable to find any bearings that were the exact correct size for the TF spindle and drum - GM engineers chose ball bearings over rollers for a reason [rollers are not "modern" and are used on some 50's models], and if everything is correct, they are fine and last a loooong time w/ no trouble - overtightening is a major cause of problems

discussion not applicable to the rear axle

Bill

I tend to agree that there is nothing wrong with ball bearings, but am a little concerned about 70-75 mph interstate driving--very common when we drive to car and truck events some distance from home. If this whole thing doesn't pan out, I'll just go back to ball bearings.

However, this is what I've found out so far. Both are roller bearing and race part numbers.

Classic Performance Products kit at $119:

Seal: National 6064
Inner: MBS 909052R
Outer: MBS 909067R

Chevies of the '40s at $235:

(Why so much, I don't know.)

Seal: 3656536
Inner: 909052R
Outer: 909001R

Tech at CPP did say they have experienced some problems with the seal seating and had to use a hammer and punch at 12-3-6-9 to get it to seat. Sounds kinda' hokey.

Well, off to check with local bearing supplier. I'll report back.

I am with red58 on this subject. I just found the numbers in a previous thread, as noted, and thought I would pass the information on to Arch for his further research. There are many tapered roller bearing and race combinations available, called out, not by application, but by ID, OD, stack height etc. If a person wanted to, you could probably adapt anything to these newer style bearing...are they better, who knows!

There are even more seals available, in a million different configurations and compounds. The trouble with all of this is finding the right person at the counter who has the time and inclination to help you. Sometimes it's tough for the owner of the local parts store to spend an hour with Sammy Stovebolt in his search for a 35 cent part. He has bread to put on his table too.

Stuart.

Just got back from Precision Bearing here in Omaha. Their books do show that the numbers in my previous post are ball bearings, however, the pics on Chevies of the '40's are rollers. Am taking another roll of the dice and placing an order with CPP as their cost is approx. 1/2 of anything else I've been able to come up with and they are great about returns.

56picup,

I hope we will learn from your determination and research. In regards to the fellows comments about how to drive a seal in..I'm with you on that. Sounds like he has access to lots of free seals. Maybe he was referring to driving in the bearing race.

Stuart.

<<Are those front or rear??>>

Duh. Yup a stupid question... that's what I get when I'm trying to ask questions that early in the morning!!

Thanks for the info.

Larry Bear,

Not sure what happened. Hope my strange comments didn't sidetrack your questions. :confused:


Stuart.

Nope, I was just slapping myself on the forehead for asking if the numbers you gave were for front or rear bearings....I had a senior moment.

The info has been helpful, I'm going to check with my local parts house to see if they can order me a set. thanks!

The bearing and seal numbers that I used on my 55 1st series 3100 are: Outer - 909067R
Inner - 909052R
Seal - 6064
The change is good when converting to disc brakes because it eliminates all "wobble".

Hope this helps.

Weird... I tried to find the numbers given but my parts place said they didn't match what he had. He supplied a set but they didn't fit. I've now ordered a set from Chevy Duty...

Please let us know how it goes. I got a set from CPP on Friday. Haven't tried to install them on my hubs yet.

Been spending all my time detailing a 2001 Saturn to make a little walk-around cash.

Arch,

I visited another old truck site recently and saw a "roller bearing" post. It listed the same
seal and bearings numbers I posted earlier in this thread. I am just a bystander on this topic, but I would start wondering if the car hubs could be the fly in the ointment in your bearing fit problems.


Stuart

Ooooh! Like buttah'!

Just got back from a 30 mile dinner cruise after installing the roller bearling kit I got from CPP--$119 + shipping:

Seal: National 6064
Inner: MBS 909052R
Outer: MBS 909067R

Everything went together as represented.

I do believe the problem I had previously was with the seals, not the bearings and races. The seals I installed today were the same as the ones I removed on my original wheel bearings. Even have the same number. The part of the seal that goes against the races is a felt-like material and allows the seal to fit snugly against the shoulder on the race. The seal on the Brothers kit and from the pictures I've seen of seals elsewhere have a rubber-like material that doesn't easily allow the seal to fit without forcing or as was suggested previously--pounding it down at 12-3-6-9 on the edges.

My conclusion is that the '53-'54 car hubs must be the same as the '55-'57 (and maybe other years) truck hubs.

Looks like we can put this one to bed and I can start thinking about putting the '56 away for winter one of these days.

My next project is going to be a honey-do (it may take a while if I go to disc brakes--new front springs, brakes, and tires on the wife's '67 Impala SS.

I also have a garage and workroom to manure out. Ever lost your workbench? I can barely see mine! Maybe I'll find some of the tools I've been looking for.