The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area General Truck Talk eBay problem and questions??

Hello All,
I just won a bid on a 53 6100 Chevy on eBay.
I called the seller that night, Friday, to make arrangements to pick it up less than a day later, Saturday lunch time.
He says that he can't sell the truck to me for what I bid, he wants almost 9 times as much money before he will let me have it.

I just listened to him and let it slide, saying I would not buy it for what he wanted for it.
Now that I have thought about it I really would like to go get the truck and pay what I bid for it, and no more. After all, my bid is a contract with the seller. sellers would be unhappy if buyers called them after the auction and said they would only pay a percent of their bid for the item. Likewise, buyers should be unhappy when a seller demands more money than was bid.

I have contacted eBay concerning this and should have an answer by Monday.

What do yall think about the situation?

Here is the auction.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1,1&item=4572395057&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT

The seller did say that he sold it on eBay before and the buyer came to look at it and changed his mind, it was not in the shape he thought it would be in. That's why he relisted it.

I wouldnt give it to you for $100 either.. the seller has no ebay feedback, so he will just abandon the account...

I would recommend that if you really want the truck, to maybe split the difference with him....

give him negative feedback, and he will do the same for you..

Good luck.

My first thought was to be nice and forget about it. But he did have 7 days to think about his auction, and pull it if he was unhappy with it. A $75 opening bid with no reserve is a chance he took if he thought it was worth more than that. I have sold things at a loss on ebay before, but I knew I took that chance when I listed it, and did not complain when it sold.

I am a pretty easy going guy, and I don't really want him to be upset with me. But on the other hand,I don't think it right for him to be able to back out of a deal like this.

If that guy wanted that much more, he should have put a reserve on it.

Wait and see what eBay's answer is before taking any action.

If things don't work out, wait until that 90th day before giving him negative feedback.

Good luck.

We're talking about a 0 feedback seller who obviously didn't know what he was doing.

Unfortunately, you can complain to eBay all you want.. they'll respond with some automated eMails urging you to contact the seller to try and resolve the issue.

In order for this guy to have any sort of real action taken against him on eBay, he'll have to do this sort of thing repeatedly, and have those people complain.. the worst that will happen is he'll get his account suspended.

Not a big deal for a person with a 0 feedback rating.

You may also mention to eBay that he improperly listed a vehicle, presumably to avoid paying eBay's flat $40 listing fee for vehicles, and flat $40 "final auction fee". Doing that is considered "fee avoidance" and is a big no no as far as eBay is concerned.

Legally, I suppose you could take the guy to small claims court.. but I doubt that will do anything but cost you money.

Would have been a hell of a buy for $102.. new hoses, water pump, battery, fuel pump, rebuilt carb.. thats over $100 worth of stuff right there.

He's been a member for 4 years and 9 months.. thats a long time to have 0 feedback.

If you look at the seller ID history you will see that the seller had only been using his current sell Id for less than a year and that for the 2 yrs prior he used another ID. Would be interested to see what feed back he had on the older ID. in 3 years you would think that he would have sold something. Buyer beware !!!! I would be very wary of a seller with zero feedbacks in 3 years.

The seller seems to be a nice guy. I called him before I bid and asked a bunch of questions, he went and looked at the truck with phone in hand to answer some of them.
Even when I talked to him after it ended he was nice about it, but I did not argue with him. I'll wait and see what happens before I call him again, right now I am on his good side.

I was concerned about the 0 feedback, but figured I would pay cash and pick it up in person, what could go wrong?
I guess I found out....
We will see what eBay has to say soon...

Your eBay feedback stays with you regardless of how many name changes you have.

When you changed your name, it used to put a pair of sunglasses next to your name for 30 days to let folks know you had recently changed your name.. now it uses a different, less "shady" icon.

But your feedback stays with that specific account, no matter what you change the name to.

You can "hide" your feedback, but when you do that it says clear as day that you've hidden it.

My guess is this guy signed up for an account years ago, and occasionally bids on stuff or lists stuff. If he's actually won anything, nobody bothered to leave feedback for him.

Heck, if I had a dollar for every item i've bid on and not won, i'd be flying my trucks in a C130 to California for full frame off restos.

The guy listed the truck with a $100 opening bid on Aug 12th, got 8 bids, and it went to $999

First auction

Then he relists it with more information, and the phrase "It's not a driver and it needs work".

If I was looking for a truck like that and saw the same 0 feedback guy sold the same truck less than 30 days ago, I might be a little wary of it.. i'd at least ask myself, "Is it a scam?" or "Maybe the truck is in way worse condition than described, and thats why the first winner didnt take it".

Either way, a zero feedback bidder selling the same "high ticket" item twice in a 30 day period is enough to spook alot of potential bidders.. which is probably why he didn't get nearly the bids on it the second time around.

When you list an item with a low opening bid and no reserve, you're rolling the dice. You're betting that market demand is high enough to command a solid final auction price.. and you know that no reserve and low opener encourages more people to bid.

I've sold alot of things that way.. and most times I get far more than I expected for the item.. so i've won more than i've lost.. but man, i've lost once or twice.

Thats the price you pay for playing the game. You won the auction fair and square according to the rules HE defined.. now he wants to back out because he dosen't like the outcome?

I've sold a few vehicles in the last year.. I list each one PROPERLY and paid the $40 to list it, and the flat $40 Final Auction Fee (total of $80 for each one) because I play by the rules.

I list stuff with low opening bids, and no reserve. When the auction ends, the winner gets it, regardless of how happy I am with the final bid price.. because I play by the rules.

Now this guy comes along, lists the truck TWICE and dodges the $80 fee BOTH TIMES, and then refuses to sell the truck because he dosen't think he got enough for it?

The only exception I could make in that situation would be if eBay had some kind of technical problem right as the auction was closing, or if a high bidder canceled their bid at the last minute.

You won the truck fair and square by his rules, now he wants to charge you more?

Thats B.S.

You know, the more I think about it, I wouldn't be suprised if the winning bidder on the first auction (the one that went to $999) wasn't a SHILL BIDDER.. either him with a second account, or somebody he knows, bidding on it just to run the price up.

For what it's worth, the seller told me about the previous auction before I even bid. He said the last guy that bid $1,000 came to get it, saw that the door windows were missing and changed his mind and did not buy it.

So I, knowing it had been sold and passed up once, took that in to account when I bid. I figure by the time I get it home I will have $350 in it, and for what I want it for I don't think that's a bad deal, no matter how bad the sheet metal is.

So let me see if I understand this..

Guy lists the truck, gets a $999 bid, winning bidder comes to get it, sees that the door glass was missing and backs out.

Seller relists the truck, adds all kinds of information, including what he put into it, but still neglects to mention the door glass is missing?

I have a hard time believing that $80 worth of glass is enough to make somebody back out of a $1,000 deal, especially after they already drove out to pick it up.. but that's just me.

I personally believe in full disclosure when listing an item up for bid. If I know something is missing or wrong with an item, especially something obvious, like WINDOWS, I feel the seller should mention it.

Granted, he might have thought that it was not all that significant of a thing.. but after somebody came to pick it up and backed out because they were missing, don't you think you'd maybe mention them being gone in the relist? If for no other reason than to avoid a repeat of the previous listing.

I agree, he may not be the sharpest tool in the drawer. I pointed out to him that the glass is flat and cheap, all he could say was that the truck was not what the high bidder was looking for.

I would not have bid much more on it, especially with out seeing it in person.

We'll see what happens, should be a good learning experience for the "seller" if nothing else. And with luck I will get a good deal on a truck, with a side order of aggravation... :rolleyes:

If the highest bid on the previous auction was $1,000, and if the deal falls through, the seller can send a second chance offer to the next highest bidder. I would think that this seller would use that option rather than relisting the truck.

Personally, I think that this guy violated some eBay rules.

He violated at least one, if not multiple.

Now as sucky as this guy seems, theres another person that is just as sucky, if not more so.. the first buyer (provided that was a true story).

Never assume anything in an auction. Ask all your questions BEFORE bidding. Want a clearer photo of some part, ask for it. If the seller dosen't comply, DON'T BID.

People who bid (or buy it now) and then ask 1,001 questions, or show up to get it and say, "Naww.. I changed my mind" are people who should be drug out into the woods and shot.

I can understand if a product is GROSSLY MISREPRESENTED.. but the glass being missing wouldn't qualify as gross misrepresentation.

I mean, there wasn't any door glass (except vent windows) visable in the pictures.. he didn't say it was there or not.

Now as a seller, i'd have stated the glass was gone.. as a BUYER I would have never just assumed the glass in a 50+ year old truck was all still intact.

Sellers who cancel their auctions at the last minute because the bidding isn't high enough for them, or refuse to sell the item for the winning bid amount are scumbags.

People who just assume things, don't ask questions, or plain out don't read listings and hastilly click BUY IT NOW or bid, only to back peddle once they've won are just as bad.

you can sue him. Call him again and record the conversation. Make sure that it's legal in your state. Then have an attorney send him a letter stating that if he does not sell you the truck you will sue him for damages and attorneys fees.

Then again...I didn't ask any questions, bid and to my surprise won. I realized that my truck was almost 50 yrs old. 1 battery, 2 oil lines, generator are all expected issues driving a truck that old from Cal to Canada. I'm surprised I actually made it and the seller was great. He didn't know about the above issues. In my opinion the guy you dealt with did not comply with the auction agreement. I saw a Judge Judy episode about a chicken suit. Suite was dirty/used, not new as listed. It's a legally binding agreement. Seller should have done his homework about reserve prices. The seller I dealt with admitted he wanted more but put a low reserve. He got a rave feedback and I told him he could use me as reference because he followed through above and beyond. He even called me a few times to make sure I was ok. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4566399789&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWN%3AIT&rd=1

I'd be intrested to know how often this happens.. I know it's had to have happened far more that once.

Usually when it happens the seller cooks up some story about the item being damaged, or lost.. but thats hard to do with a great big truck, especially when you're planning on selling it AGAIN.

So i'm curious how many times, especially in automobiles, that the seller has refused to honor the winning bid, been sued, and the buyer actually ended up with the vehicle.

They make a big stink about your bid being a legal, binding contract.. that by placing your bid (or listing the item for sale) you agree to blah blah blah.. but I wonder how many times this has actually been tested in a court of law (other than Judge Judy or Wapner)?

You have a legaly binding contract. He's screwed. The mention of bringing a lawyer in should be enough to get him to cave in...if not, he's even stupider than anyone here thinks. If he shot himself in the foot by listing at a low starting price without a reserve, that's his problem, not yours.

I have emailed the last "buyer" (the $1,000 one)to se what his thoughts are.
I am still waiting for a responce from eBay. I chatted with someone this evening about it, they said I should have a reply soon. It's been 3 days now, the auto reply said I would have an answer in 24 to 48 hours.....
I have yet to call the "seller" again.
With luck I think it should work out, I only worry about the confrontation in the end. I don't think he will be happy. Perhaps I can recrute my 6'6" 300+ lb friend to go with me.

Never take a great big guy with you, take alittle scrawney guy that mouths a lot that way the guy gets poed then he will probably jump the little mouthy guy. Just some advice.... Ronnie

Probably was a little premature to Email the other high bidder. At this point we don't know if it's the same guy or maybe his best buddy. I hope you didn't spill too much of your thoughts to the other bidder, just in case.

I thought about that, the other buyer being friends with the seller.
I just said that I was having some trouble completing the sale. Asked why he did not buy it himself, What he thought of the seller. I said that from my conversation the seller seemed like a straight forward honest guy, but I am begining to wonder, asked him his thoughts, and told him I was waiting to hear from eBay.

Even if it is the same person, or friends, he just knows to expect a call tomorrow...

I did a member search on the two highest bidders in the first auction to see where they were from. Neither one showed the state they were in. That seems a little suspicious to me.

Keep us posted Grigg. I am interested in seeing how this all plays out.

just chatted again with someone at eBay. at first it was sounding like he *could* change his mind. Then when I mentioned it was because he thinks it sold to cheap; the eBay person said he could not help me, I had to follow a link he provided (the one I filled out Friday) So, now I just wait for an answer, he did say it could take 72 hours, and it has..., so I guess eventually I will get an answer from eBay. Till then, I was asked not to go back to the live chat with this problem. I did not think I was abusing the service (2 times same day), I just wanted a timely answer, or at least one when they promised.
I just thought the sooner this is sorted out the better... nothing to do but wait now

Well as I said earlier.. my gut tells me the last bidder was a shill bidder.. either the same guy using a different account, or a friend or realitive.

eBay could give a rip less.. they'll probably tell you to use SafeHarbor to file a auction resolution thing.. basically just an automated system to mediate between the two.. useless.

eBay won't even suspend his account unless he has 3 or more complaints for this kind of behavior.

The short end of it is there is nothing you or eBay can do to force this joker to honor your high bid. I guess you could hire a lawyer and take him to court, but short of a court order and a sherrif standing next to you, there probably isn't much you can do to get that truck for that bid.

Now had the guy actually took your money, it would be a little different story.. but since no money has changed hands.. eBay will just give you the run around, and this guy will end up selling it to somebody else.

from the ebay user agreement.

"5.2 Binding Bids. Except for items listed in a category under the Non-binding Bid Policy, if you receive at least one bid at or above your stated minimum price (or in the case of reserve auctions, at or above the reserve price), you are obligated as the seller to complete the transaction with the highest bidder upon the auction's completion, unless there is an exceptional circumstance, such as: (a) the buyer fails to meet the terms of your listing (such as payment method), or (b) you cannot authenticate the buyer's identity."

Notice the wording on the two of these things, pulled from eBays help system..

Seller Non-performance
Failing to deliver an item after a buyer has paid or significantly misrepresenting an item is not allowed.

Non-selling Seller
Refusing to honor a winning bid by not following through with a successful transaction is a policy violation when committed by both sellers and bidders.

Taking somebodys money and not giving them the product is NOT ALLOWED, but refusing to honor a high bid is simply a POLICY VIOLATION.

You can file a "Non Selling Seller" on this guy, and eBay will send them an automated eMail that says "Shame on you!" but that will be the extent of eBay's involvement.

If multiple unique winning bidders file the same thing on him for refusing to sell at the winning bid amount, eBay will eventually get around to suspending his account.

eBay can't force him to sell the item at the winning bid, and you showing up at his door with cash and a printout of the auction will do you no good if he refuses to sell it at that price.. in fact, he's liable to call the cops if you don't leave.

When the cops show up, you can show them the printout of the auction, and explain the situation. The cop will say you need to get a lawyer and take him to court.. but if you don't leave he'll take you to jail for disorderly conduct.

It sucks.. absolutely sucks.. that people like that skirt eBay fees by listing it in the PARTS section and not the proper area that costs more, then list it with a low opener and no reserve to further avoid paying higher listing fees, then when you win the bid they refuse to sell.

You can take the guy to small claims court, but I still don't know that a judge can MAKE him sell you that truck at the winning bid price.

If it were me, I'd give the seller a call, tell him that he is in violation of a legal contract, and that you're going to call a lawyer. See what he does then.

eBay says that bids meet reserve or are on non-reserve auctions create binding contracts. Courts don't necessarily like to force specific performance on contracts, instead usually awarding damages. Either way, he owes something...as does the buyer. Who knows what a judge might do?

This is the message I got from the first "buyer"

The seller put a "strike" against me for backing out of the deal. The following is what I wrote to eBay to appeal the strike. eBay agreed and removed the strike.

On 8/23/05, I traveled to the seller's house with the payment and to see what I needed to do to move the truck. What I found was a truck that was significantly not as described. The truck was listed as ?This truck is complete?. I found that the truck?s interior was completely gutted and missing many parts. The window glass on the doors and the mechanisms to operate them were missing. The back window, gas tank, door panels, and head liner were missing. The seat was just the springs, which was removed. I feel that this is not a complete truck. The seller never stated anything in his listing of the missing parts or other defects of the truck. The pictures and description in the listing did not accurately portray the truck actual condition. The listing did not state anything about the major defects, such as clutch and brakes not working. I feel the strike against me should be removed because the truck was not properly listed for what it really was. I realize that buying a fifty year old truck will required some work, but I think the seller should have done a better job of listing the actual condition of the truck as I see in all the other listing of old trucks on eBay. I told the seller at that time I was not going to buy the truck because the truck was not complete and was not in the condition that the listing would lead one to believe. He stated that I could buy the missing parts from old truck suppliers. I did not feel that I should be held to this contract since the item was not stated correctly or accurately in the listing. I have bought two large items from eBay before, a trailer from West Virginia and a car from Michigan. Both of these items were as stated in the listing. Listings that hide the facts like this one will hurt the future of eBay.

As you can see I backed out since I felt it was not worth the $1000 I had bid. At $102 it could be a good deal, but expect a lot of work. The seller stated that the engine ran, but I did not see it, since the battery needed to be charged and the water was drained out. The seller had cleaned the engine up and replaced the hoses, belts, spark plugs, fuel pump, etc. I wondered why he drained the water after that instead of just filling it with anti-freeze. I would ask if the block is cracked. The body has some rust holes in the floor and the bottom of the cab. No more than you would see on one these trucks. The rest of the truck looked like it was there. The tires held air, but you better put it on a trailer. I noted that his new listing took the words ?the truck is complete? out. His new listing stated nothing about missing parts or what worked and what did not work. I found the truck was more of a project than what I want to get into at this time. I felt the seller wrote his listing to miss lead the buyers that the truck was a lot better than what it really is. Good luck, hope this helps.

Now what? is it worth the 900 mile round trip for the frame? That's all I want, I might be able to sell pieces and pay for the whole thing.

Well the word "complete" could be interpreted a few different ways, i guess.

When *I* think of a "complete" 50 year old vehicle, I think of all "major" parts being there.. body panels, engine, tranny, steering wheel, rear end, doors, hood, seat, gas tank.. that sort of stuff.

I guess i'd expect a seller to mention that the seat was stripped to bare springs.. but then again, if I was going to bid, i'd ask for a picture of the interior before I bid.. or at the very least ask some questions concerning the interior of the cab.

Then again, i'd expect a seller to clearly list all known issues with the truck, as well as what work he did to it in the listing.

It's clear this seller was keeping alot of information out of the description, the good, the bad, and the ugly.. combined with a 0 feedback record, it makes for a spooky auction to bid on.. but like you said before.. if you showed up with cash on pickup, the chance of getting boned would be 0.

Thats a long haul for just the frame.. and who knows? It could be rusty as hell or plain out shot. If the guy isn't going to mention he knows the clutch, brakes, seat, etc are shot I wouldn't expect him to mention the frame was bent/busted/rusted/shot.

It's all moot, anyway.. since the only way you'll get that truck for that bid is with a court order. If it were me, i'd just be thankful you didn't drive all that way just to find out he wasn't going to sell it, or that it was a piece of crap.

I wouldn't bother leaving a negitive, either.. since he'll just leave one for you.

I have to wonder tho.. why was it that the last buyer didn't leave this clown a negative, or at least a neutral??

I mean, according to his eMail, the seller already negged him (he was able to have it removed) why wouldn't he at least leave a neutral saying something about it?

I still wouldn't be suprised if this first bidder was actually the seller or one of his cohorts, and the horror story about the truck not being as described just an elaborate ruse to get you to just forget about it.

Just for kicks i'd tell the dude you were passing the info over to your lawyer and see how he replies.

I am still waiting to hear from eBay (4 days now)

I am beginning to think I should forget about the truck, likely I will never get it, and it may not be worth the trip even for a $100.

Till I hear from eBay I'll sit tight.
Then I'll tell him about the contract, the user agreement, and my "lawyer". But I don't think it will change anything.

I'm not a lawyer, but bids are just that--bids!

A contract enforceable in a court of law requires a bit more than a bid. Tort cases are awash with tears.

To be enforceable, a contract needs a willing seller and a willing buyer meeting at arm's length, an agreement to complete a transaction (that is, what is to be sold and what is to be bought), AND and exchange of valuable consideration. Until that happens, there is no contract that a court of law can enforce or make whole (by awarding damages under the contract). Until all the legal parts of a contract are done, either party can walk away.

If the contract is not completed, one, or both, parties may claim to have been "damaged" and seek restitution for that, as a result of failure to complete the contract, but obtaining damages for a tort on a small ticket item is rare.

Your hopes and desires may have been dashed, but you have not been damaged, yet. And you do not appear to have caused the seller damage (other than, perhaps, to his good reputation as a vendor on E-bay).

What did the seller want viz. a. viz. consideration? Did you both agree on a cash transaction face to face?

If you had escrowed payment through Pay Pal or mailed him a check for $1.00, which he subsequently cashed, you might get a lawyer (for several hundred more smackeroos) to take the case, but don't end up bein' a dog chasin' yer tail.

The old marketplace maxim Caveat Emptor speaks volumes--not only to you, but to the court.

I believe i'll light a Habana, and re-read that post and pretend I know what any of that meant!

I'm not a lawyer, either.. but I used to date a gal who dressed like one during her strip tease act.. does that count?

did you hear from e bay?

Glenn, as someone who managed to pass Contract Law last year, I think there is a strong argument that listing the item (and allowing the auction to end) with no reserve is enough for intent to sell, and the bid is enough for intent to buy.j

From eBay: When a seller lists an item on eBay, and a buyer bids for and wins that item, the seller and buyer have entered into a contract. Both members are expected to honor that contract.

No, I have not heard from ebay, resubmitted my complaint after the 6th day, now 2.5 days later no response to that one either.
I'll try and chat with them again about it, but I don't thin it will help.
About all that is left to do is call the seller up and try and work it out, I don't think ebay wants to help.
Furstrating..

From my live chat conversation with eBay a few minutes ago


2griggs: I was told I would have an answer in a day, then two, then 3, then a week. I just want someone to keep their word and give me an answer when they sayid I would have one. I need this resolved soon. Thanks

Chris P. S.: I can see that this is currently being investigated.

2griggs: That's good, anything else that may help me?

Chris P. S.: Unfortunately I do not have any further details as this is investigated by Trust and Safety and that is another department.

2griggs: Any idea when I may actually have an answer?

Chris P. S.: I hope that you get your answers soon as I know it can be frustrating waiting when you need something looked after in a timely manner. I am not positive. I can not give an exact date, but they try to get them out as soon as possible.