The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area General Truck Talk Original or Rod?

I know this question has been beat to death but I'm still sitting on the fence on my '41 as to how to do it. I like Rod's and Original trucks both but for the life of me I can't make up my mind on what to do with this Art Deco bolt. I get all different opinions from my neighbors and co-workers some of which are die hard Rodders and some say original is the only way to go. I know in the end it's gonna be my choice but let's hear some of your opinions on this. What are the pros and cons of each type restoration? I've had a lot of people telling me that the only way to get big bucks later on if I sell is to do it street rod. I guess it's all in how much you spend either way. I love the nostalgia of the original and I also love the rumble of a built small block. Help me decide.

Mike

What do you guys think the ratio out there is Rods v/s originals on these old trucks.

Mike

With a old truck like you have, you definately have to go with original. It's a very rare find. It would be a shame to cut up a perfectly good body to rod it. And as far getting your money out of it, stock is the way to go. I've had several cars, both stock and muscle car. The rods take a lot more money to get them looking good for show and go and you rarely get 1/3 of what you put into it. Like you say, it's your choice but to me it's a shame to destroy a part of history. Cecil.........

If you rod it, you can never really be the best -i.e. the fastest, the best looking, etc.
But, if you keep it complete stock and go with the completely restored look, you can be the best, because there is a set standard.

Hope that makes sense

Hardy,
You have to find a ballance of rod and old. I did my 53 5 window pickup with disc front brakes and dual master cylinder for safety, changed the rear end to a 3.55 from 4.11 for driveability and changed the seat for comfort. I then added fenton headers to the inline 6 with smitty mufflers. Offenhouser intake with dual carbs. This is the way they did it in the 50's. So now I have a nestalgic, original hot rod that can be converted. If you go to the car shows EVERYONE has a small block. How many ways can you do a 350? Go to the car shows and you will see.
I left the body in tact no chopping or buchering of any kind. Just a good paint job and a stright body.
Hope this didn't muddy the water for you.

You have to decide what you want to do with it.

If you bought it just to resell it later - that isn't anything I know about.

However, if you bought it cuz you think it is cool and you want to wrench on it cuz you are into that, then go for it.

It's all about what you want to do with it - haul lumber and dirt? Just drive around looking pretty? Going to truck shows?

Think about what you want to be able to do with or in the truck when it is done and that will help you decide.

At the end of the day it is your truck, do what you want to do.

-W

It's your ride, it's your decision. Build it the way that you will enjoy it.

Mike - What ever you do, make a plan and stick to it. It costs more money if you change your mind mid-stream and decide to go a different direction.

I did about the same thing 235 Fat Fenders did, a souped up 235, 3.55 rear, dual master & different seat, add a nice paint job and left the rest stock. Not quite finished yet but getting close.

George

Well, I definitely didn't buy it to re-sell. My wife knows all too well that I hate to sell anything. I like the idea of the "Hybrid" Rod so to speak with the beefed up 235. I think you guys have made it a litle easier for me. I don't want to chop it up at all and Definitely no work for this truck when it gets done. I think I'll go for the late 235 though for sure. Does anybody reproduce those old lever type shocks or can they be re-built?

Mike

They can be rebuilt at about $100-$150 a piece.

I vote for stock, it seems like most deco chevy trucks I see at show are all rodded out. Dodges I see seem to be all be stock. I love the lines and looks of the deco trucks and when I see one that looks like it did back when FDR was callin the shots I will reach for my camera. But it's your call, give it month or two and you'll know what to do. If you're like me you've got more time than money.
Good Luck,
pjdee

Wow, that seems a bit steep for those old shocks. Now I see why people change them over to regular shocks.

Mike

I hot rodded an Art Deco 30 years ago, and now wish I'd have kept the truck. Not kept it stock, but kept it as a hot rod.

You don't sound clear as to what you want.

Think about how you want to use it. You can show a stocker at a lot of shows, but not all. You can show a rod at a lot of shows, but not all. You can drive either a stocker or a rod locally or long distance.

If you want to run down the freeway at the speed limit going up and down hills both, you probably need to rod it. If you like travelling on secondary highways, and don't mind slowing down going up hills, you might be happy with a stocker.

I think its a mistake to restore or rod either one to make money. If that's your goal I'd say sell it now.

If it were mine it'd be a hot rod. I think a big jimmy six with a 5-speed sounds right. Modern brakes on both ends, retaining the straight axle up front. Modern electrics. Modern upholstery. Modern tires.

That would retain most the original look, but would create a very drivable rod.

But that's what I'd do. You should follow your own ideas.

Mike go to a few car cruises,look around,get ideas.there are pros and cons.Myself I went street rod.Put a 69 Camaro IFS.V-8,auto trans,Ford rear end.It handles very nice and moves ahead of the traffic The body is stock except for the headlites,there frenched.No more bug eyes.Its your call and what ya want to spend.You will get more money out of a rod.
http://community.webshots.com/user/danpa482 ---------------

I think OldSub summarized it very well.

Good luck, whichever you decide to do!

If you want to keep it and DRIVE it, do it up and have a blast! Make it perform the way YOU want!

If you aren't gonna drive it (a sin in my book) then keep it all original.

Make it a restorod , the best of both worlds.
I am seeing alot of trucks out there that are a basic stock truck in appearance with all the modern drivetrain and maybe air. I also like the hopped up sixes with the s-10 5speed and open rear. I used to want to totally rod one out but now as I have gotten older it depends on the vehicle condition etc.. . My dad bought a extremely nice Model A that had been stored for several years , he wanted to rod it but after looking it over it was just too nice to change , so it is being cleaned up abit and driven as is.Like I say it just depends.If you plan on driving one along ways then you may consider the restorod version , it is all up to you and your on taste .

What ever makes YOU happy. It's YOUR truck. What is going to give you that 'thrill' every time you get in it? Some like vanilla, some like strawberry.
However, I kept mine mostly stock. You see very few bone stock trucks at car shows. EVERY ROD has a V-8 it seems. Seems like that has become 'vanilla'.
If you upgrade a few 'safety' features and a 'creature comfort' or two, you can have the best of both worlds, stock look with modified upgrades.

Some guys are die hard stockers and some are die hard rodders. Nothing can change their minds.

In some ways I envy them, because their minds are made about how they will build their truck.

The rest of us must be a little of both stockers and rodders otherwise we wouldn't have this struggle between mind and heart of how we want to build our trucks.
I think our hearts tell us to maintain the historical originality of our truck, and our mind tells us that we want to travel anywhere anytime, in todays world, on todays super highways without the restrictions of the 30s 40s 50s running gear.
If we had the funds and the time to build one truck for the tug of our heart and one truck for the tug in our mind then the struggle would be over. Most of us however do not have this luxury, so we have to decide between the two worlds or combine them.

I believe it's possible to combine them by updating the drive train, suspension etc to maintain safety in todays traffic flow and yet retain the historical appearance of our trucks.

For the average guy, I think not taking the truck too far from its roots is the key. Most upgrades if done correctly can almost always be reversed in the future. A classic looking, stock appearing, truck never has and never will be out of style. (even with modern suspension, brakes etc)

Don't let the acorn get to far from the tree and your heart and mind will be satisfied.

I always love this collections of thoughts on rodding or stock. Each one of you guys make a very viable point. To each his own the truck is yours do as each one of you want to do. I like reading and thinking about each post because i truly believe what is voicing is the personally of each person.

Many of us grew up during the times these trucks were built. I can not have my fathers truck because it was traded years and years ago. But, I love the body styles of any old Chevy or GMC. So I want to stay orginal as close as possible. On the other hand I enjoy smooth rides, being able to stop, cool interior (AC & Nice interior), and If i want to kick it in the butt I can. My personally comes out as pretty common sense person but with a wild hair once in awhile.

popcorn The Truth is Out There (If you are just redoing it to sell then just do it now)Ben

I think it depends on your ultimate purpose for the truck. If you planning on resale by all means keep it stock. However, if it's something that you want to keep and drive around for the enjoyment, that's a little different. For instance I drive my K10 '60 Chevy everywhere. I hate idiot lights so I added guages. Some folks like disk brakes in the front. I think if you are going to keep and enjoy it for driving purposes than I think you should modify it to make your personal ride more enjoyable.

As most have said, it is personal preference. I think my decision would rest on several factors.

1) Rarity. Is yours one of only a few produced? A brand no longer manufactured? One of few survivors? The newer and more common it is, the more likely I'd be to hot rod it.

2) Completeness. How much of the original is there? If the original equipment is missing or torn up, you'll have to rebuild or replace. I suspect it costs more to go back original than rod. And if you have to replace a lot, to me it detracts from the "historical" aspect, and the need to go "original". More complete = restore, less = rod.

3)Use. Daily driver = rod. Show or occassional = restore.

4)Money. Perhaps my perception is wrong, if so, please correct me. I think it takes more money to restore. To do it right costs a bit of cash, and your utility is limited. A first class restoration is probably only going to shows or parades.

Most of us can't afford that. We have to use our projects, which means we need safety, reliabilty, and a few creature comforts for our daily drivers.

From my own experience...my dad has a "barn find" 1942 Studebaker Commander with about 20,000 miles he bought 2 years ago. The rat-eaten upholstery had to be replaced, but the glass/drivetrain/radio and exterior paint were still good. You can bet we will not ever hot rod that one. We won't even "restore", since we feel it is more valuble original.

On the other hand, we bought my daughter a '53 AD pickup. The bed floor is gone, seat ripped to pieces, the engine is bad. It will be more of a rod than a restoration, due to safety and reliability.

I like the suggestions of the combinations. For instance, my daughter's pickup may get a modern engine and brakes, but we will do our best to not destroy the overall integrity. No chopping, hood louvers, etc.

Again, to each his own, but I want to leave it where someone can restore it in coming years if they wish.

One more point (I know, too much information). I like the way 235 fat fenders did things. My dad also collects antique tractors. Some of them were extensively modified by the farmers during their working days. So the question is to restore them to "factory" or to "period". For instance, Dad has a wheatland A John Deere. The original owner cut out the gas tank and installed a butane tank (nicely done, BTW). Dad choose to keep the butane tank rather than go factory.

Just one more way to preserve history.

CanyonAg's 1. 2. 3. 4.
Couldn't agree more.

Very good points everyone. I'm now leaning more toward original. It's all there but a lot will have to be replaced. I don't think I will drive it very much so original seems to fit with a few minor upgrades such as the 235 and maybe discs on the straight axle. I'm not going to do anything that can't be reversed later on.

Thanks everyone,

Mike

On my son's '46, we're leaning toward a "driveable resto", meaning upgrading the brakes all around, dual master cylinder, highway gears, a 235, and perhaps air conditioning. We were going to rod it with an all-Mopar drivetrain, primarily to chap those put-a-350-in-it-regardless-of-make types (I hate seeing a Chevy-powered Ford, Mopar, Studebaker, whatever at car shows!!!), but since I have a '71 Dodge D-100 also, that 440 I have in the shop is going in it.

Build it for you and no one else. If someone else digs what you've done to your truck, cool! If they [censored] and nit-pick, then tell them to stuff it.

Hey fat fenders...could you give me some more details on your mods on that 235..would like mine to be similar..not a lot, just sweet..sure would appreciate it..mine is tight, just needs some things to make it talk a little..thanks brother...

I like both, so I can't vote. I totally agree if you rod it, don't do the usual stuff ( I didn't on mine ). Original IS different, so is a unique rod. Personally, if I see a small Chevy V8 in anything, I'll ignore underhood and check out the interior,...

Plan your work, and work your plan!
Never compromise your plans, 'cept with your wife!

Check out my pics, not to brag, but you'll see no compromise from our plans there.......

Original or Rod?? 6 of one, half dozen of the other!! (pun DEFINETLY intended)!

An alternative viewpoint:
Stock is a lot easier to do than modified. Most parts are readily available through catalogs and they are, by design, direct replacements for original parts. Modified cars and trucks take a lot more fabrication, although many parts are being made for specific applications. Many rodders buy someone's restored classic as a base from which to start. Stock isnt worth as much as custom, yet it still costs a bundle to do. Most folks here are of a like mind - mild customize / modernize. Driving the secondary roads in a stock truck gets old fast when there's 10 cars behind you and no place to pass.
Unless I'm mistaken the old knee action shocks are only single action so an upgrade to tube style shocks will be an upgrade to safety. You dont have to have disc brakes to be safe but they can always help. I think the dual master cylinder is a good idea regardless.
The truth is that none of these trucks are rare. You found yours after looking around for a short while just like the next guy will. I suppose that every once in a while someone actually takes one back to completely stock from a modified state but it musn't be common. I suspect most restorations are approached from a good solid original example or a neglected state but hardly from a rodded state.
I could be wrong.
The world is full of 50+ year old trucks that barely run 50 mph and can't drive straight. Be daring and build one that can run safely at 75+ all day long with A/C blowing and 20+ mpg.

That ought to get some folks going...

hehehe

Hey here's another thought!

Can't make your mind up? Buy another one and do two! One restored and one hot rod. The best of both worlds....

Just don't tell your wife where you got the idea!

LOL! I like that idea!

I've had so much fun doing my truck up the way I want, I find myself saying "If I ever get finished with this one, I will HAVE to buy another!" I don't ever want to stop fixing this and changing that.

I am head over heals in love with my truck. It's my "daily driver" ... I can't stand the thought of driving anything built in the past 25 years. I wanted a 350 sbc engine in it and I wanted the drive train and mechanics to be more beefed-up than original ... I also wanted the gas tank out of the cab ... and after 6 months of hunting on the web, I found my truck in Texas and had it transported to New Jersey. It already had the gas tank removed, with a 30--gallon tank in the rear (I like that!) and a beautiful job done on the filler neck and door, put in the rear fender ... it had all the mechanics I wanted, too and I bought it for only $8,500 ... of course, I've dropped another $12,000 in it since -- all of which can be seen at my site.

Aside from liking updated mechanics (in the interest of drivability), I like these trucks in their original-looking state. I can't stand chopped tops ... so mine looks original, except for the rear bumper which the PO did, but I like it fine and is an added safety feature if I ever should get rear-ended -- God forbid.

The first thing I did was to rewire the truck ... after 50 years, it sure needed it!!! I've got AC in it and will re-create the interior to make it my own little dream come true, with modern (LOW back) power seats, etc. ... but, again, I'm sure that if I ever get to the point where there's nothing left to do, and I imagine that day will have to come, I am definitely going to have to get another and start all over, because this is just TOO rewarding an experience!

Speaking from experiance...restoration costs long cash, PERIOD. Restoration is tedious, requires a high level of dedication and fortitude, and unless you do ALL of your own work the final parts and labor tab can far exceed the value of the car/truck. So why do we see so many of the "common" old iron hot rodded? Did you watch Barrett-Jackson? A state of the art hot rod has brought more dough for the last 30yrs. Will you make $ paying someone to do it? NFW!!! But you may be able to "back up our bet" by recovering a larger amount of your initial outlay.

Average restoration shop rates are $40/45hr. A total resto on that truck is an easy 1500+ hrs. Add several thousand for parts, fasteners, chrome plating, paint/mat'ls...you get the drift. If you can do your own work on any level, perhaps the pro services needed will be limited. Has anyone ever seen a restored 'bolt bring back $70K?

I did see a chopped AD bring $95K. I did see a 56 F100 with a V10 bring $110K. It's not all about the almighty $. But when tough times hit you in the cheeks, it's nice to know you're not looking at a huge loss at the end of your truck relationship.

The real payback is in how many smiles per gallon you get when it's done. Like Mastercard says, priceless.

Other than upholstery and plating, I do ALL of my own work. Me and dear ol' Dad will chop, channel, and body section the newly aquired 54. We've won a lot of awards over the years, but doing the work will be the priceless part for me. Smiles per gallon starts with the turn of the 1st screw...for all of us. Good luck, and enjoy whatever you do with that way Kool truck.

So can I put disc brakes on the straight axle and still use the original wheels? I'm going to go with the '60 235 that I found. Would you guys use the original tranny and closed shaft and rear end? If I change that what tranny can I use bolt up to the 235 and use an open drive shaft? What type dual master cylinder will bolt up on the chassis where the original is now? I guess you can see now where I'd like to head with this truck. Just slight upgrades to modernize the drive train and brakes and keeping it to where 9 out of 10 people will never know it's not 100% stock.

Mike

There are bolt-on kits for front disks on AD's. Also available are bolt-on power brake MC's, but the fill hole doesn't line up. A remote reservoir covers that problem. The 60 235 sounds good. There are many running the T5 tranny from an S10 or Camaro as they bolt to your bell housing. A new rear, new clutch plate and (possibly) custom drive shaft will be necessary. I'm thinking of that route for my 3/4. Another option is converting to automatic. There are kits to bolt a TH350 or 700R4 to the back of your engine. Check the links here and the parts suppliers. Headers and a new intake (2x1 bbl, 2 bbl or 4 bbl) would certainly add some punch. If you want to do the engine, many here will recommend Santucci's book, and finding a GOOD machine shop.

Have I missed anything, guys?

Thanks, so I can bolt up a T5 from an S-10 to that old 235 and still retain my pedals in the floor? The original tranny is a top loader. I assume the T5 has the external linkages. How can I make this look close to stock? Won't the shifter be over to one side a bit?

Thanks,
Mike

The T5 shifter in the S10 is a little behind the stock floor shifter on the AD. The Camaro version comes up through the seat. Some use the Camaro box for the gearing, and swap the tailshaft from the S10 to get the forward shifter. Apparently, there are some mods to make to the Camaro output shaft to make the speedo work. No one has said whether or not the S10 output shaft could be put in the Camaro box or if it's just easier to do the mod.

a t5 shifter is built into the trans,foward on the s10,rearward on a camaro.im glad you found a 235 even though id hold out for a 261.lol

Well, I am in the leave it stock camp. However, I too have made a few modifications to my truck that I believe are practical to drive it on a regular basis.

I kept my old 235. However, if I were going to change out to a 350, I would probably still paint it up in the old green color to look like an old 283 Taskmaster. I added power disc brakes in the front, radial tires, and power steering along with clear-coated Birch wood in the bed.

So, my truck is not completely stock, but for the most part, coming down the road at 50 mph, it sure will look like a factory condition truck!

Like many have already said, enjoy it. As long as it is getting some attention and being saved from the crusher, no matter how you fix it up, at least the young ones can see an example of early American engineering and craftsmanship of a bygone era.

Good luck on your project!

Jim Karras
Orange, CA
'59 Chevrolet Apache 32 Stepside Pickup
E-mail: Jim@59apache.com
Internet: http://www.59apache.com/

Well Mike, first of all, I have to say that ALL 41 chevys are seriously COOL. The first hot rod I have any memory of was my Dad's 41 chev coupe with a built to the hilt 270 jimmy, so the 41's hold a special place in my heart so to speak. If I had a 41 pick-up I'd go with a period correct hot rod. Bored and stroked full pressure 235, or else a 261 or one of the GMC inline sixes, fenton headers or a split manifold, 3 carbs, the whole bit, et. There are some good books on the subject, there is a wealth of good info here on the Bolt, and our good buddy Tom Langdon at Langdon's Stovebolt Motor Company can be very helpful at times. As mentioned above by Highlander, an absolutely correct restoration can be very expensive, and it would be tedious and time consuming. A period correct hot rod on the other hand gives you more room to roam with your imagination, will probably end up costing less, and in my opinion it's more fun and a whole lot cooler. Just my 29 cents worth.

Boo