I'm not a flat tappet guy but it is my understanding that if the initial startup does not go well that you can wipe a new cam. I knew one guy that would put an old cam in for start up on a new build and once that went well he would put in the new cam and break it in. At least that's what he told me.
In 65+ years of building engines, that's one of the dumbest ideas I've ever heard of! Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
On the triple spring round track cams we ran, we would do the break-in run with only one spring installed. Some of those engines had a seat pressure of over 300 pounds- - - - -much more at full opening of the valves. I can't imagine a good reason for running a used cam and lifters, when the whole purpose of a break in is to establish a running fit between the cam and lifters. Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
On the triple spring round track cams we ran, we would do the break-in run with only one spring installed. Some of those engines had a seat pressure of over 300 pounds- - - - -much more at full opening of the valves. I can't imagine a good reason for running a used cam and lifters, when the whole purpose of a break in is to establish a running fit between the cam and lifters. Jerry
I believe the purpose was to make sure the new build ran properly at the right RPM for the right amount of time before attempting to break in the new cam. Like I said I'm not a flat tappet guy. I think they are one of the stupidest things I have seen in over 50 years. But I feel the same way about distributors so there's that. Maybe the freevalve thing will catch on and I can throw the cam and valve train away without having to buy a $400,000 Koenigsegg engine.
Asking before is the right way to go, and its free. With shipping costs as high as they are, be sure to figure that in as well. I have read about Powell Machine on other forums, everyone says good things about them, so thats where I would start with regrinding lifters. The cam should just be replaced, too much pitting and not anything special. My link to the Johnson HyLift lifters didn't stand out to well, so be sure and look at them. They are first rate lifters made in the USA.
Just keep calling and checking prices, you will get a plan eventually.
'57 GMC 102, Original 347 V8, HydraMatic, 3.08 rear gear, added A/C, disk front brakes, HEI, AFB carb, '98 Honda Black Currant paint. T-boned and totaled 10/12 '52 GMC 152 Stake Bed, Original 228, SM420, added A/C, HEI, disk front brakes, '67 Chev 3.55 rear gear. Gets used as a real truck.
I am in the process of setting up a fixture on my lathe to resurface the bottom of flat tappet lifters. The most common radius is either 60" or 72". Once my fixture is up and running, I should be able to do both. The simplest way to duplicate some of this supposedly obsolete technology is to do it yourself- - - - -then you don't have to be at the mercy of the so-called "experts"! Anybody with the unmitigated gall to call himself a "machinist" should be able to figure out a simple procedure like grinding the bottom of a valve lifter to a specific radius- - - - -all it takes is a lathe and a tool post grinder! Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
Angles are broken down in degrees, minutes (60 per degree), and seconds (60 per minute). Seconds of angles are typically only used in latitude and longitude where a second of latitude is about 101 feet on the earth's surface, but varies greatly for a second of longitude (as those lines converge the further from the equator you get.)
Kevin 1951 Chevy 3100 work truck Follow this saga in Project Journal Photos 1929 Ford pickup restored from the ground up. | 1929 Ford Special Coupe (First car) Busting rust since the mid-60's If you're smart enough to take it apart, you darn well better be smart enough to put it back together.
Acording to my email.from Powell. They stopped resurfacing lifters several years ago.
Jerry, I think it's not so much a can they do it, as it's a, will they do it. It apears to me they make more money doing other types of machining.
And we th U.S. have spent the last 30 years or so pushing our kids to college and not the trades,so now we are seeing the cost in the shortage of skilled labor. My 2c.
Chris
Rock49 aka C-Rodg work in progress 1956 Chevy 3100 261 engine
I agree- - - -unless things can be produced by the thousands on CNC machinery, today's computer nerds think it can't be done. Case in point- - - - -King's Crankshafts in North Carolina- - - -which was once the "Go To" source for custom billet crankshafts for NASCAR engines. I bought one of his manual crankshaft grinding machines about 10 years ago for just above scrap iron price. The company went belly-up shortly afterwards. The King's crankshafts I was using on some of the round track engines I built were selling for $5500.00 apiece 30-something years ago, and he had a 3 to 4 month backlog of orders. When the old man retired and his son took over the business, things went downhill in a hurry! Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
I have resurfaced lifters on the back side of my old Sioux valve machine. Nothing scientific about it. It is simply a V in the back of the machine. I think they are supposed to have .0015 to ..002. But I really don't have a way of measuring that. I just ut them on a piece of glass and used a .0008 feeler gauge. Either go or no go. Back when we had GMC tank wagons, we bought short blocks that came with cams but no lifters. I touched the old lifters up on the old Sioux machine, and we never had a cam to fail. 60 to 70 years oil wasn't very good. We usually threw a set of file to fit rings once and then bought another short block. I still have one of the old trucks that I installed a short block about 65 years ago
As I said earlier in they post, this is not a get by cheap repair. The hobby is starting to die out, we should count our selfs lucky for the parts we can still get.
I have never shopped for a 235 camshaft, but I'm betting there are not many variations available. Go hear, https://www.blocklayer.com/degree-wheeleng enter your numbers from the Heritage site, it will figure duration and centerlines for you. This will give total cam spec's for the GM cam, new cams will likely use the " @ .050" " duration numbers which will be much shorter than the GM numbers. If GM gives minutes of rotation, they are giving you the total lift and duration from zero ( base circle ). Theres no way to figure out on paper the @ .050" numbers due to lobe design differences. They only way to know would be to check it with dial indicators and a degree wheel.
Chris - Just a quick peek through the web this morning and I found that Rock Auto still has in stock the Melling CCS5 Camshaft for the best price I could find on the web + shipping of course.
You already know that Kanter is currently showing as the lowest priced 235 replacement hydraulic lifters, but a bit of further searching located an NOS Set of 12 GM# 5231450 H-16 235 Hydraulic lifters* for a much better price. The only concern on these NOS pieces is the pictures show small signs of minor condition imperfection spots that may or may not rule them out.
One of the other guys can chime in on if those imperfections pictured make this a deal or no deal.
There is another source, where I purchased my solid lifters from for my 261 rebuild (12bolt.com), that currently still offers 235/261/hydraulic replacement lifters at a bit more than the Kanter price. From there you can find replacement sets of 4 L761-4 235 replacement hydraulic lifters. Unfortunately you'll need to order 3 sets of 4 at a total price of about $200 more than the Kanter 12 piece set.
* Note: The GM# 5231450 235 hydraulic lifters are listed in GM Parts Books as fitting 1954-58 235's (except '58 Taxi). The 1959-62 (includes '58 Taxi) 235's with hydraulic lifters used GM# 5231830 HL-31 lifters. The only difference between the two part numbers in the Parts Books is the description of the H-31 includes an added "copper plated seat" where the push rods ride in the lifters. I can't say for sure, but I think the slightly earlier lifters will also work in your '59 235.
Hope this info may be of some help.
~ Dan 1951 Chevy 3 window 3100 Follow this story in the DITY Gallery "My Grandpa Carl's Truck and How it Became Mine" 1966 Chevelle (Wife's Hot Rod) | 2013 Chevy Silverado (Current daily driver) US Army MSG Retired (1977-1998) | Com Fac Maint Lead Tech Retired (1998-2021)
I resurfaced my old hydraulic lifters myself. I have a universal Tool and Cutter Grinder that I set up for the task. It worked very well and i was able to put a slight convex to the surface.
So far I have confirmed two places that resurface lifters. One local and one in texas. Posibly next week I will go by the local shop and see if my lifters are a good candidate for resurfacing. For whatever reason, I have become fixated on resurfacing the lifters I have.
I havent realy had an issue locating either the Melling CCS5 or CCS6 camshaft. My issue is deciding on which to get. For a daily driver I dont think the differences between the two would be noticeable to me. So which ever cost less will most likely be the deciding factor.
I will be calling the machine shop tomorrow to see if they have inspected my block and head for cracks, before I purchase anything else. In the meantime I have enjoyed calling the various shops. Everyone has been helpful.
And. This thread has helped a lot in terms of getting my questions answerd and getting a better understanding of camshafts and lifters.
Thanks for the links and advice. Chris
Rock49 aka C-Rodg work in progress 1956 Chevy 3100 261 engine
