The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Driveline Huck Brakes...Never Seen "Em Before!

No. Later versions of the Huck breaks didn't even have the sardine can keys and springs. It'll hold.

Otto doesn't have these tabs on his backing plates.

I have gotten back to working on the brakes. With the rear right done, I have started on the front right.

I have mentioned before that when I purchased the truck, it came from a fellow who had taken it as part trade on another vehicle he had rebuilt. I was told that the fellow who had started the project, stated that the engine was new (I hoped that this was true, but didn't really expect it was the case), he also said that the brakes were re-done as was the transmission.

When I started taking the brakes apart, I realized that that part of the story was probably true. While working on the rear brakes a few weeks ago, I saw that things looked pretty dusty and covered with cob webs, but that the brake lines were unused, the shoes were relined and the wheel cylinder was fresh - sort of.

Tonight as I dug into the front brakes, I took a couple photos of before and after going over things with a vacuum cleaner. (Big difference!)
I also found a date on the flexible brake line at the front wheel. I thought it looked to be in good condition...and I believe that it, too, is unused...but the date was 32 years ago, last month! (I assume that although they look fine, flexible and uncracked, they should be replaced to be safe.)

I believe that the brake drums may actually also be unused, but there is surface rust in some places from sitting for 3 decades. It looks light enough to remove easily and I assume that going over it by hand with steel wool might take care of it without doing damage?

I have noticed that both the rear wheel cylinder and the front wheel cylinder have the number '4810' cast into them. Is this correct for the 1941-'46? I don't need it to be factory-correct...but I do want it to be safe.

I check my pictures and I do not see any cast numbers on mine. Sorry. I might have my old ones in the shed. I'll take a look tomorrow.

Nick - Those "4810" casting number wheel cylinders are correct for your truck. Below is a screenshot of the vehicle application list from Raybestos related to this casting number. The casting number was a standard used by numerous aftermarket replacement product companies for this particular size of cylinder and range of vehicles.

On your note concerning the age of the flexible brake hoses (2 front and 1 on rear axle), I think for safety sake it would be wise to just replace them. They may look great, but like any other rubber type piece are subject to aging.

One another related thought. Did the brakes have fluid in them throughout? If not, there's a good chance the master cylinder and wheel cylinders will need to be inspected and rebuilt. Any moisture in the air trapped inside them could have caused corrosion and stuck cups and pistons.

These were the old brake cylinders off my '46 in the shed.

Thanks, John.

I sure hope that Dan is correct.

In my limited experience with older brake systems, I would have expected the front brakes to have a wheel cylinder of a different diameter (larger?) than the rear.

But I know that I don't know!

Dan is usually right on the money!

Wow! When I reread my comment, it seemed more hesitant than I intended for it to sound!
I believe (Hope!) that Dan understands my respect for his knowledge and my appreciation for all the assistance he has given me in my journey!

Nick and John - First, thanks for the very kind words and please know that I do usually* try my best to provide the best info I can. That being said, I'm admittedly sometimes wrong and I hope all can forgive me when I muck something up, like I kinda did here. Hope I won't have to stay in the dog house too long for my oops!

My initial info was based on a too quick search this morning that wasn't as thorough as it should have been, and I'll apologize for that and make amends here to set the info straight.

A detailed search this evening of Chevy Master Parts Book resources shows the following (see the excerpt screenshot below):

Front wheel cylinders for your trucks should be GM# 5300869 - 1-1/4" ID, casting# 1074903 (same as those pictured by John above). The Raybestos (and some other brands) used PN: W3406, which corresponded as far as I can tell with their casting# 4810.

Rear wheel cylinders for your trucks should be GM# 5300866 - 1-3/16" ID, casting# 1074886 (again same as those pictured by John above). The Raybestos (and some other brands) used PN: W3396, which corresponds as far as I can tell with their casting# 4806 (again seen in one of John's pictures above).

So what it looks like is you both have the correct front wheel cylinders, given they are in fact 1-1/4" ID, but slightly too large rear wheel cylinders as they should be 1-3/16" ID.

Once again, a huge apology for my roaming off-track and hope this info helps set things back on the straight and narrow.

* Currently away from home and dealing with a death in the family so my focus sometimes wavers.

Thanks for the update, Dan. I had tried to find the casting numbers I have in the MPC and other places, but as is too often the case, I got nowhere.

All I have to do now is decide if I want to find a couple of the 1 3/16" ID wheel cylinders, or live with the rear brakes locking up before they should. (I assume that would be the result of using a wheel cylinder with a larger diameter ID than was originally called for by the engineers?)

At this stage, perhaps I should see if someone is looking for the 1 1/4"ID units and has a pair of 1 3/16" units to get rid of.

Does anyone reading this thread have experience using the same size wheel cylinders front and rear on their truck? Okay...or terrible, unsafe idea?

And, Dan, hang in there. Focus on family - that's the real stuff.

If you already have them installed, I would try it. Obviously you're not going to floorboard it out the driveway and then slam on the brakes at 70 miles an hour. See how they behave. Maybe they'll work just fine for normal driving.

It's not too hard to swap them out later if required.

Otto, I may just do that...still pondering it.

One of my various careers was working in an accident investigation/safety engineering company, and memories of what I saw there make me think how foolish I would feel if trying to save a little effort and a few $$ caused me to have less braking power than I needed at a critical moment.

Hoping someone with first hand experience might speak up...

I have an aversion to spending money...but to be safe, I have just ordered new flexible brake lines and 2 of the correct rear wheel cylinders. (The old flexible brake lines were unused, but 30+ years old, and the rear wheel cylinders were slightly oversized for the application.)

So, when I finish the brake job, I will have a couple of wheel cylinders in very good shape that are correct for the front of these old trucks to put in the Swap Meet forum.

I have managed to get back to working a bit on the brakes on my truck and I have a (probably) very basic question.

Since the brakes were redone 30+ years ago by an unknown individual and the job was never completed, I can't depend on what exists to inform me as to what is correct.

At what points in the hydraulic brake system should there be copper washers between components? I know that there would be one at each wheel cylinder. Would there be one at each junction block connection? In a stock setup would all the copper washers be the same size? Would they be available at the local FLAPS?

Thanks!

Nick, the bolt with a hole through it,holding the block with a flare connection to the cylinder, is called a banjo bolt. There should be two copper washers at each cylinder where the block, banjo bolt and cylinder contact; they are not used elsewhere in the system. You will notice there are small thin concentric ridges on the surfaces where the copper washer contacts. The washers act as a seal when the banjo bolt is tightened.

The copper washer is made of annealed copper which makes it very soft and malleable. After use, the washer is work hardened, so you must not reuse it without annealing it. It will be too hard and not seal. My advice is to use new ones from an auto parts store. Jim Carter has them with a new bolt, his part # MEE244. Other vendors you see on this forum should have them, also. Your local parts store may have them in the right size by themselves and that would be less expensive. I have reused the banjo bolt and block without problems. You can anneal the old washer yourself if you know how to do it.

Kent

P.S. Some systems use a banjo bolt connection at the master cylinder, so you may have one there.

Thanks, Kent!

Okay, now I have another question...

On the front wheels there is an "oil deflector" between the inner wheel bearing and the steering knuckle. In the manual, it says that one should make sure that this deflector is in "its proper place between the inner bearing cone and the shoulder on the knuckle spindle".

What I think is the "shoulder on the knuckle spindle" is very narrow and I have not figured out a way to get the "oil deflector" to stay in place for any time at all.

I have even considered some glue of some sort that would hold it just long enough to get things assembled...but I may be overlooking something obvious.

If the oil deflector is out of place when the drum is installed, it will keep the whole assembly from sliding onto the spindle as far as it should go.

The attached photo shows the issue.

Any suggestions are very welcome!

You can just put probably some axle grease on the back of it and sort of stick it into place there. Or just a little light coating of weather strip adhesive to hold it into position

Otto,

I have tried the axle grease, but it wouldn't hold it securely enough to stay.

I will see what I have along the lines of weatherstrip adhesive. Thanks for the suggestion.

(I wonder why that deflector is not permanently attached to the backing plate.)

Nick - It might be a simple as a few dabs of "sticky" wheel bearing grease in spots around the rear side of the oil deflector, then pressing the deflector against the spindle firmly to seat it against the slight spindle ridge that should keep it centered. Then slip the hub and brake drum assembly in place.

That or if the deflector and spindle is oil/grease free, maybe a couple of dabs of blue loctite? You'd have to keep the deflector in place, maybe with some painters tape, while the loctite takes a set, then the deflector shouldn't move when reinstalling the hub/drum assembly.

Just some outside the box thoughts.

Edit Note: Otto beat me to the post button.

Thanks Dan!

I am a bit stuck at the moment.

I have a rear brake drum on my ½ ton that turns freely until it is pushed all the way onto the axle…then, even with the adjusters backed off so far that there is space between them and the brake shoes, it takes a lot of effort to get it to turn.

All the brake drums appear to be new. From what I have read, there should be a bit of a chamfer on the back edge of the drums and there is. There is no evidence of wear on the inside (friction) surface of the drums. They all appear to be “new” although there was light surface rust on each.

I have completed going over the brakes on three wheels of my project, which has a ’42-’46 chassis. The brakes were done by a previous owner about 30 years ago and the truck has never used since. (So, many of the components were “new” but have been sitting, installed, that long.)

I am replacing the rubber hoses and going through the master and wheel cylinders – all of which appeared to have been new when PO did the work. (I found that the two rear wheel cylinders were same model as the front and I replaced them with the correct (smaller bore) units.)

It has taken me more time than I expected to do this brake work and I was pleased to think I was near the end…but now when I put the left rear drum in place, it turns rather freely until I snug it down against the axle flange with the lug nuts.

I have checked the hand brake cable (disconnected completely, forward of the pulleys) and it is not tight where it connects to the Emergency Brake Toggle Lever.

When I had it all apart, I made sure to clean up all the parts and apply a small amount of brake part lube to the pins, clips and backing plate friction points. Before attaching the Brake Shoe Retracting Spring everything seemed to be moving as freely as it should.

Any suggestions?

Nick, these days new doesn't mean the drums are correct or that they are even made correctly. Same goes for shoes.

I purchased AC Delco drums for another vehicle and had to have 1/4" of meat machined off of the outboard side of friction surface of the drum. The shoes were pressed up against "the curb" and wouldn't move.

In your third picture, it was the ridge where the friction surface meats the mounting surface.

I guess you don't have any old parts?

Make sure the shoes are resting on the raised bosses on the backing plate and not down in the recessed area.

Did the wheels roll freely when you first got the truck?

Are you having the same issue on both sides? We're looking at the driver side. See if the passenger side drum will fir on this side.

Otto,

Thanks for that!

I will take the drum off the opposite side and see if the problem goes away. If it does, I guess I will break out the measuring devices and maybe figure out what is going on.

It's possible that the drum is out of round and egg-shaped

And put the problem brake drum from the driver's side on the passenger side and see if it fits. If it does then you can look at the brake shoes and assembly

And if the passenger side drum fits on the driver's side, you'll know right away that the driver side drum is the problem

Nick - I think Otto is onto something with his comment about the "curb" inside your drum. That may indicate the drum wasn't cut the full depth and when installed it's pressing against the outer lip of the shoe metal backings. First oc is yours showing the ridge. The other two are from vendors offering new replacements. There pics clearly show no ridge in that area.

Take a look at the other rear drum and compare the widths of the shoe contact faces. If your other drum doesn't have the ridge, or it's not as tall, try that drum in place of the stuck one and see if that allows for turning.

As Otto said, if you confirm the drum with the ridge is the problem, you can take it to a FLAPS or shop and have them turn that ridge down to restore proper clearance. If no one will turn it, next step is to purchase a new drum.

Let us know how it turns out.

Thanks to Otto and Dan, I had the fortitude to go back and determine the cause of the serious rubbing that occurred when I tightened the lug nuts on the left rear wheel.

It seems that at some point in the past, someone lost a wheel from that position and the bottom of the backing plate was bent and worn.

I straightened it out the best I could and think that I have it cured from interfering with the brake drum now.

I believe that to replace the "Flange Plate" (backing plate), one has to remove the axle? If that is the case, I probably will leave it for now and deal with it if I need to do rear end work.

Thanks for the suggestions!

Glad you figured it out Nick and thanks for letting us know. A possible bent backing plate was going to be my next "perhaps" brain toot to try out, but you found it and got it resolved.

Yes to having to pull the axle to replace the backing plate. If it's not causing any issues with your driving/braking, then you should be fine until diving into the rear axle in the future.

Yeah that's great. I like when car problems turn out not to be real problems.