The Stovebolt Site Forums The Parking Lot Big Bolts 1946 2 Ton ??

I am planning to look at a potential project truck that is listed as a 46 that has dual wheels in back, no bed (I presume it was a flat bed?) that appears to have a relatively complete drive train, cab, and front sheet metal.

I would appreciate any insight regarding how to identify the truck more than just the model year, such as where I may find an identification tag and if this vintage had vehicle numbers or only engine serial numbers.

I have become very familiar with the '50 vintage 3600 I just completed recently but big bolts are a whole new animal to me.

I would also appreciate any insight regarding parts availability, engine its likely to have (I understand it may not be the original - most are not) and ways to identify what it is, and transmission - rear axle insights. I believe it may have an overdrive on the back of the transmission but that's a guess without seeing it.

Looks pretty clean.

Here's a clip from the '46 Vehicle Info Kit on serial numbers.

Thank you Kevin. I plan to go to look at it tomorrow and at least now I will know where to look for the serial number tag.

By looking at the front axle cap, it is not a 2 ton but a 1 ½ ton 4100 PJ or 4400 PK depending on the wheelbase. If the serial plate is missing check the rear axle prefix, that will tell you the year and tonnage of the truck. The same transmission prefix was used in the 1 ½ and 2 ton trucks. That will just give you the year. Check the engine prefix.

Thank you jimgmc.

I'm not sure I am up to tackling this project but it is good to know what I am looking at.

I looked at th truck but could not find a serial tag or any numbers on the rear axle (pretty rusted surface).

It does have what appears to be a 2 speed rear axle.

Seller claims it rolls easily and stops well but I am not sure how much to believe as there are obvious breaks in the rear brake lines.

Engine, and cab shell seem to be complete, no glass, doors are decent but missing - or at least removed all internals, latches, handles, etc. There is a lot piled into the cab that was not explored and may be some of the removed parts. Wiring is basically toast. Someone has done work and primed the front portion of the cab, hood, grille, etc. but it's not clear what they may have done prior to priming. The front bumper is loose, laying across the rear frame with some sheet metal that appears to be a hood piece.

I did not measure the wheel base but from the front wheels to the back of the frame it is approx. 17 feet (204 inches) which should fit into my garage. The front to back wheels is approx. 15 feet (180 inches) so it should fit on my trailer. I forgot to measure how tall the cab was so I don't know if it will fit through a 7' tall standard garage door.

If I was to tackle it I think the intial steps would be to remove the cab, engine, drive train, axles, etc. and have the frame blasted and painted. Although I might explore having if the shop that does that worl could handle it with the axles in place so that everything gets blasted and painted.

I gather there are other interested parties but I haven't decided if I am interested or just curious.

Did you raise the hood? The cab mounted serial number data plate should be mounted on the right front side of the cab cowl (facing the side of the truck, not the front), which is covered by the rear section of the right side hood panel. Pic attached to show location.

Too hard to tell what series the truck is by dimensions as both the 4000 and 6000 series trucks had both short and long wheelbases (shown in the 2nd and 3rd pics).

As to the brake assessment, back ones are definitely out of operation with the wheel cylinder feeder lines cut and crimped closed.

I raised the driver's side of the hood but failed to raise the passenger side (my bad). It was covered with a tarp and I was trying to minimize the number of bungee cords that needed to be removed and reinstalled but I was definitely looking in the wrong place.

The Marketplace Listing includes a picture of the title althought it has a large white/glare area and when I try to zoom in it doesn't remain in focus. I believe the model number may be VPKK19183 but the V doesn't make sense as the plant identification should be the first digit and it should be a number. I am speculating that it is a 4400 - based on the PK (which I am guess at).

One of the questions/concerns is how much would this truck share parts wise with a 3100 or 3600 pickup, specifically the rubber associated with window mounting and sealing (glass can be cut to fit I believe) as well as door components like hinges, latches and related regulators, window regulations, and the engine (assuming it is original) would it have the same rebuild parts? I'm sure the wheel hubs and bearing are probably not and the 2-speed rear axle would be it's own animal but any insight into brake parts? I know the wheels would need to be replaced with something but not sure what, need to get an outside tire diameter that is close to the original given the anticipated gear ratios even with the 2 speed rear axle.

From what I saw it is clear that over its lifetime it has seen its fair share of make it work fixes (bolts to replace door hinge pins, etc.) but that is totally expected. I suspect he rear brake lines being pinched off was one of those fixes as well.

I am anticipating that if I was to pursue this I would want to make it as close to original (at least to the untrained eye) as it clearly was/is intendd to be a working truck not a show truck or a hot rod. For example I would consider updating the engine if it made sense but doing so in a way that it still looked like the original. I am not sure about the interior as I suspect the original seat frame may not be there and if the cab is wider than a pick-up the seat was proably wider also (guessing on both counts). Given that there is nothing to indicate what the back was originally I would probably build a flat bed-stake type bed just to have something there.

My mind tends to wander when I am considering something like this and I would prefer to know as much as possible to make an informed decision about whether I should pursue this project.

Regarding the wheels and tires, you'll want to go with the tallest you can, because the original two speed is geared short. If the high end is higher than 6.40:1 then I'll be surprised.

I agree on the "V" at the beginning of the identification number not making any sense. The "PK" definitely indicates a 4400 model and the 2nd "K" would make it built in November. "19183" is the unit number, with all truck numbers at each plant starting at 1001, making this one number 18183 off the assembly line.

Regarding the cab questions, all the truck cabs except for the 5000 series COE's shared the same cabs, doors, windows and associated components. Original equipment engines for the 4400 would have been a Thriftmaster 216, but you may very well find something different. If you can, look for and post the engine serial number as we can decode that to figure out what's in there now.

You are correct that the rest of the driveline/suspension are going to be different than the pickups, with the partial exception of the 4 speed "Crash Box", which will be basically the same except outfitted with an open drive output instead of the torque tube output setup.

Hope this helps fill in some knowledge gaps for you.

The 1946 2nd series 1 ½ ton trucks did not come with a two speed rear axle. The 1939 through 1946 1st series (Interim) had a RPO two speed rear axle. So, I went and found the listing on FB Marketplace. They have a picture of the serial number data plate. 3OS11 and it looks like 19374. 3 – St. Louis, OS-1946 Interim 1 ½ ton 160 W.B. 11-November of 45

jimgmc - thanks for the additional insight. I had asked the seller for a picture of the serial tag and told him where to find it, I didn't realize that he had added it to the listing information but it makes sense that he would. I am not sure how to relate the serial tag numbers with the title numbers but that is just another piece of the puzzle.

I did not realize that there were 1st and 2nd series of these trucks or that the change occured in '46 (actuallu made in 45 per the date de-code). It sounds like this truck would have more in common with the 39-45 model years than 46's.

Gdads51 - thank you for the information about the cabs being common, that will help a lot if I decide to pursue this as there are a lot more used and new parts avaialble for typical pickups than the big bolt trucks.

Given that if the engine is original and therefore a 216 I suspect that I would want to replace it or rebuild it with more modern bearing, etc. I know HRL has posted a lot of interesting ideas along those lines so something else to put into the mix when thinking about thispotential project.

I read that because replacement/modern wheels for these can be difficult to source that many people update the axles to something more modern.

If the engine, axles, and wheels would all be replaced its sounding like I would basically be buying a frame, cab, and front sheet metal. The seller's asking price reflects that I guess but it does highlight the scope of the project. I'm still considering it but in reality I should probably pass, except I find it so interesting a prospect it is hard to let it go.

Just an observation IMO, but the cab serial number data plate looks to have been disturbed/removed at some point in the past. That coupled with non-matching info on the title may make this one an issue when it come time to establishing new ownership title at the DMV.

Just offering for due consideration in potential decision making.

Didn't most of the older titles use the engine serial number instead of the body/chassis number to identify the vehicle? Factory replacement engines usually came without a stamped ID number so dealers could duplicate the original engine number. A later model engine could also cause some registration headaches.
Jerry

Thank you for the additional insight and concerns.

I have decided to pass on this for a number of reasons but if anyone here needs local eyes on the truck for specific questions I can try to assist.

A lot of good info in the posts above. For anyone else who might come along, check out our Tech Tip on restoring the bigger trucks.

I wrote that article a while ago, but I think its still decent. Covers the main things, anyway.

After you read that one, check out our other Tech Tips.

I am not a frequent flyer here but when I check in, it is not unusual to find a post suggesting that the entire driveline must be replaced on an old truck, to make it drivable. I disagree with this position. My Dad's 1942 COE had a factory 2-speed rear axle and it would get around well enough to not be a traffic nuisance, when empty. When heavily loaded the situation was different. As long as these trucks are used for pleasure driving and light hauling, the original drive components are adequate.
I drive my 1936 1-1/2 truck several times per week. I live in the country but I take it to town on errands frequently. I watch for traffic behind me and can run at 50 mph so as not to create a bottleneck. I pull over to let others go by when necessary and possible. I NEVER drive it on interstate or our local US highway, which is pretty much like interstate.
I find that other drivers are tolerant of older vehicles, for the most part.

Mike
P.S. I once left the quarry with 7 tons of rock on my Dad's COE. It became an unpleasant and frightening experience that I do not care to repeat.

Mike

My concern with the driveline was mostly related to the wheels and finding viable tires. That being said I was at a car show today where there was a 1950 2 ton truck that had the original type wheels and tires. I talked to the owner and he didn't have too much trouble finding tires or a place that would mount them.

He indicated top speed was about 55 MPH but it needed to be a smooth road as any bumps and you are bouncing off the roof to the cab.

I agree for the most part about original drive line being adequate. My '57 2 ton now sports a 2 speed axle with 6.80/8.20 or something close to that. With 10R-22.5 drive tires that are over 40 inches tall, it can run 60 mph, GPS says I can hit 63 mph at 4100-4200 rpm. Factory governed rpm is 4000.