The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop 235 dampener/balancer install issue

I don't know what's up with this engine but its been a real headache. Now I'm having trouble installing the balancer. Its a 59 3/8 pully and I believe it came off this engine to begin with. Now I have it installed and it bottoms out too early with a half inch to go. here's a couple of photos if anyone can see what the problem is or how to solve it.\
Thanks in advance.

first is is crank snout, second is dampner depth to internal stop, third is the actual measurement

Just a shot in the dark on this, try putting it on without the key and see if it goes all the way.

I don’t think you have a problem. The balancer bottoms out against the cam drive gear, not the end of the crank.
I think if you put the water pump in place you will see that the belt groove lines up when the balancer stops moving.

Thank you all. I think I still have a problem though. I can actually push this dampener on with. hand pressure until it bottoms out against the crank gear. It’s supposed to be a press fit and I don’t have to hammer it on so I think I’m going to try to find another dampner and see if that’s the problem. If this crank had been drilled for a bolt in the front, I wouldn’t worry about it but it’s not so I have to make sure it’s a good press fit.

It still needs to press fit even with a bolt. It could be a slightly looser fit, but the bolt is just there to keep it in place, not to hold it tight. I build a lot of Pontiac motors, they use a semi tight fit balancer with a 5/8"-18 bolt torqued to 180 ft lbs. Even with that I've seen stock ones broken at the keyway from working loose.

Use Red Loctite when installing the balancer, even if you have the snout drilled for a retaining bolt.

A new balancer for a 230/250/292 fits a stovebolt engine by shortening the length of the snout by about 1/4" to make the pulley grooves line up when it bottoms against the timing gear. Move the seal surface on the OD back the same distance to keep from damaging the seal. That's a quick and easy job on a lathe.
Jerry

Just to clarify, when you’re saying snout, you mean the snout on the dampener and not the crank.

Yep I meant to say the snout on the crank. Now next question - can I drill and tap the crank myself or is it hardened steel or something. Thanks for all the posts on my issue.

Shorten the damper snout about 1/4". That allows the pulley groove to line up with the water pump and the generator when the damper bottoms out on the timing gear. Move the seal surface on the OD of the snout back the same distance to make sure the timing cover seal doesn't get damaged as you install the balancer. The crankshaft is forged steel- - - -tough, but not hard. Use a 1/2" variable speed drill motor, and a lot of cutting lube to drill the crank snout. I used to make a drill and tap jig to help with the threading operation, but it got to be too much of a hassle trying to wet-nurse people through the procedure, even with a 2-page instruction sheet I included with the kit. I was losing money on every one I made, so I just quit trying. I've drilled and tapped dozens of crankshafts freehand without a problem, sixes and V8s, or it's an easy job to do with a floor mount drill press if the engine is disassembled. It's impossible to teach people how to use common sense.
Jerry

I drilled my 250 six cylinder crank while the engine was out of the truck. The 250 in a '37 chassis doesn't leave enough room to do much work on it, yours results may vary.

Drilling isn't all that hard, start with small bits and work your way up to the correct size for a small black Chevy bolt. Keep clearing chips out as you go. You will need to go pretty deep unless you purchase a two taps, one a standard taper tap, and one bottoming tap, but you still need go past the total length of the bolt.
Being centered is best along with straight, buts its not the end of the world if you get off sideways a little. With a tall drill press, it takes no time to drill out the hole, I did mine still in the block with blocks of wood to support the engine. Be sure to use new bits and taps, it will go much easier.

On a side note, DO NOT USE THE BOLT TO INSTALL THE BALANCER ! Instead, install a piece of threaded rod, something harder then ALL-THREAD, and a few large greasy washers and a long coupler nut. The greasy washers help with friction, the long coupler nut has way more surface area to grip more threads under torque. Once you have the balancer in place, unthread the rod, clean out the hole, and Loc-tite the bolt in place with a torque wrench.

The optimal way to install a balancer is with heat and cold, Crankshaft in the cold ( today would be a good day 18* F out ) and balancer in an oven at 200* F . Once both have heat soaked for an hour or two, in one quick move, shove the balancer on. Most likely it will go 100% of the way, if not, pull it the rest of the way or block the rear of the crank from moving and drive it on with a block of wood and large hammer.

Craig - You can purchase a crankshaft snout drilling kit from a number of vendors. Here's one that will work with your 235 (and many other engines):

12Bolt LLC Crankshaft snout drill kit (and it's made in the USA!)

Ok, guys, I got the kit - thanks Dan. I drilled and tapped the crank. Not real happy with the results. Kit drill bit sucked. Bought a couple carbide bits and got it done. Any way I measured the hole depth with dampener installed. I have ordered the correct length bolt but I would like to get one of those large thick washers to use with it. I've checked the usual sources, grainger, McMaster Carr, etc with no help. If any one has a source I'd appreciated it. I guess I didn't figure on the thickness so I may have to order a different length bolt. After just re reading Joe's post I will go look for a small block washer and bolt. If the thread size is the same that will work. If I had that common sense Jerry mentioned I would have done what he suggested but the wear sleeve was already installed on the dampner so I thought the bolt would solve my problem. I'll see may have to start over, pull the dampner, remove timing cover and follow Jerry's instructions.

I got the 12bolt crank tapping kit and had no issues with it, drilling and tapping 3 cranks. I used my 3/8 drill motor. It did get a little hot, but did the work. I set the cranks on a flywheel vertically so I could lean into the drill a bit. Passed the kit along to another Stovebolter, as I'll have no further need for it.

Craig, try Mr G's Fasteners in Dallas. He has every kind of fastener ever made for anything. The guy is very nice and very helpful.

Automotive fasteners, of all types

Mr. G's Enterprises
5613 Elliot Reeder Road
Fort Worth, Texas 76117-6013
817-831-3501 or 817-838-3131
https://mrgusa.com/

Just be mindful of the fan blades hitting the bolt head and thick washers. The bolt doesn't have to be special, any grade 8 will hold, grade 5 would be fine also, the sheer strength of both grades will be more than needed to hold a balancer in place.

UPDATE - I Went to my local NAPA and ordered the crank bolt and washer kit for the SB that NAPA showed on there website. I installed same and I'm happy with the installation now. I wonder how tight I should go on the bolt. For now its past hand tight. I forgot to use some locktight so Ill take it back out and reinstall with the medium strength locktight. Any recommendations on the proper torque would be appreciated. Thanks everyone for the tips and information.

On engines that use a bolt to hold it in place, the torque should be somewhere between 80 - 200 ft lbs.

Since your balancer was meant to be a press fit, I would install it as prescribed in the manual with loktite on the shaft. Once it's seated, then install the bolt and lock washer and torque it to about 90ft lbs

For reference, Ford recommends 70-90 ft lbs for it's harmonic balancer torque specs on all engines in 1964, 200cid inline six included.

That bolt thread is usually 7/6-20. The standard torque for that thread is 55-60 ft/lbs.

https://apf.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/bolt-drill-torque-chart.pdf

Jerry

I will defer to HRL.

Thanks one and all I really appreciate the help. I sure don’t want this thing coming loose.

Jerry, thanks for the torque chart. I will add it to my tech data folder.