The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area The Tool Chest Soda Blaster

I have been thinking about buying a soda blaster to work on my '51 GMC body and frame with because nobody in our area has one and I am told it is the best and easiest thing to strip with. Was curious if anyone has bought one and what would be and would not be recommended.I am seriously thinking about going into business with if I can find enough work for it. Thanks, Alan

Just beware a lot of paint manufacturers have warranty issues where soda blasting is concerned.

Read this thread as an example:

SPI Thread

Alan,

Eastwoods and other companies sell soda blasters for metal preparation prior to painting.

The media is not cheap but there seems to be many benefits to using this type of media. Some people think it shoots soda ash - it shoots sodium bicarbonate (specially formulated granules of baking soda). It is human-safe, environment-safe, and mechanical equipment safe.

Maybe someone who has personally used a soda blast system will respond.

Tim

Robin - I think those paint forum guys are seeing blasting done with the sand blaster style machines [as opposed to pressure washer], which prolly deposit [imbed] oil from the compressor air, and possibly by folks using cheap generic soda instead of the stuff made specially for blasting - the proper blasting soda is totally water soluble, and properly water rinsed afterwards leaves no film that would interfer with paint adhesion - Armex [Arm & Hammer] even has a "rinse accelerator" in their formula of blasting soda

Tim - if that little unit operates off your compressor make sure you have a good oil/water trap working!

our long-not-seen-member fatfenders had his truck done by a commercial soda blaster - raved how well it worked and hasn't had any problem with the paint that I've heard of - he painted with Zero Rust

Bill

I know that several guys that I have talked said that you needed a good filter on your compressor, also it doesn't harm wires, glass, etc. Also if you get it in your starter or something similar on your motor, just rinse it out with water and let it dry.

red58, not sure if you're aware but BarryK on that forum is a paint manufacturer. He started raising this issue with soda blasting a while back. Shortly thereafter a few others changed their paint warranty wordings to read the same. I don't think a simple water washdown will neutralize the soda. Also if I read it correctly in several other places, you need to acidwash to ensure paint adhesion afterwards. With the vast array of other media available to safely blast with why take a chance with something that is of concern to several paint manufacturers?

I am sure something as simple as a vinegar wash would neutralize the soda.
David

David - as a maker of vinegar I hafta tell ya that it's about the most corrosive stuff around - can be used as a rust remover, but you sure better be able to rinse every drop of it off .... and don't spill any on yer concrete, it'll eat the surface it's the other way round, you use baking soda to neutralize vinegar

Robin - I read all that thoughtfully, and I believe the primary problem they've seen is technique, equipment and type of soda, not the soda blast processes itself - they seem to think it was a 'fad' that's dying off, but what I see is that it's becoming more mainstream all the time, and I see a number of soda formulations specifically designed for it - the big guys don't design and produce products for which there is no demand - it's very big for aviation and marine work, both arenas where comtamination is an important consideration

Bill

red58 I am still going to disagree. In order for paint to adhere you need acid on the metal. So if the soda leaves an alkaline coating that would be why soda blasting has been reported as causing problems with paint adhesion. Blasting soda has a Ph value of 8.4 which if I remember accurately indicates it is alkaline. To neutralize it you would have to use an acid.

To take your next point. It really doesn't matter if it's a growing industry. If paint manufacturers included the likes of BASF recommend against using it, then obviously there is something that can cause issues.

I have sent email inquiries to two soda blast media producers to find out what they know about PPG, BASF, and Dupont automotive paint warranties relative to the use of soda blast media during metal preparation. I have also contacted Eastwoods and another vendor of soda blasters.

>>> one vendor replied - "check with the paint manufacturers"

Does anyone have a link to a specific BASF, PPG, or Dupont document regarding their warranty being voided if the metal was cleaned/prepared with soda blast media?

>>> PPG does not have a way for non-professionals to contact them directly with technical questions. I have never had luck obtaining written technical information from PPG resellers.

Maybe one of the professionals on this site will try to obtain a technical document from PPG or others?

I would also add here by the way that just about any surface that has alkaline tendencies will result in paint failure. For example, you cannot paint fresh masonry for the exact same reason: it will be alkaline and paint will fail in 6 months or less.

I just know from experience, before you can paint after soda blasting, you have to wash, scrub, wash and treat before even epoxy will stick.

You might as well DA the whole truck.

Frank

I always wash my bare metal with Dupont's equivalent of Ospho - it is acidic and should neutralize the sodium bi-carbonate (diluted Phosphoric Acid, Sodium Dichromate, Surfactants, and Extenders).

Nonetheless, if the paint manufacturers do not allow soda blasting as a surface preparation, then this topic is a no brainer.

This is against my better judgment to respond here but I was asked to as a favor by another member here.
First as I read the above ideas for neutralizing a soda blasted car, this is not an area you want to play bench chemist with.
The reasons the majority of the manufacturers have distanced themselves from soda is because of the advice the actual soda blasters have given the shops and it is all over the spectrum and that is why the problems
.
100's of restored cars and street rods have had problems, such as shop in NC that has to 60's corvettes peeling and two other 69 restorations because the soda guy said hey just DA it treat it like any other sandblast job. The blaster has moved out of state and as I understand it, that was a wise move for him.

Will it work? Sure, and here are two ways i know for a fact that do work, if the rest of you want to argue acids, I'm not interested until you have done a car and driven it six months, then we will know it works.

One blaster uses purple power with a steam cleaner and rinses the car with water and he does this three times, then DA's the car with 80 grit, washes with wax and grease remover and sprays epoxy. Does it full time and will not blast a car unless he sprays the epoxy so it is done right.

Other way is warm soapy water with a scuff pad doing a panel at a time and rinsing with a hose, two or three times to be safe.
Remember if any of the wash step drys it must be retreated because the water will not neutralize that spot. (Just like an acid treatment does)

All the paint companies have been burnt by these soda jobs and the best thing I ever did was post in the tech book and on the web site that our products will not work over a soda job.
Just kinda got tired of someone calling me and the soda guy said I had a bad batch of epoxy, the finale straw for me was when a restro place doing the same car for the second time called me and said 1/2 the car this time was done in S&W etch and the other half in your epoxy and your epoxy is bad. I said how is the S&W and he said they have a bad batch also.
That was lottery winning odds for sure.

Why bother? Media blasting is same price and there is a media to do anything you want done to your car.

If you want more info go to www.southernpolyuurethanes.com and on front page click the box that says "SPI USER FORUM" type in soda and there is a large discussion there covering anything you want to know.