I was getting ready to start up the engine in my truck. I put in fresh oil and coolant. I notice a leak from the water pump area, so I drained everything, an removed the pump. I think it may have been the gaskets, the engine has been in a heated garage, but not run for years.
I took off the water pump, pretty sure it isn't leaking, but the gaskets need replacing. Here's where I get confused with the engine identification. The head casting number is 3836848. The books I have say that's 1956-1962. The books tell me there should be a block casting number in front of the distributor, on the lower block, just before you get to the timing cover in the front. There is nothing there. The serial number stamped on the block, behind the distributor, is 09I0I82 F55P3. From the books, I don't know what the 09I0I82 refers to and the 3rd and 5th digit actiually look like upper case letter "i". The F means Flint, not sure what the 55 or P3 mean?
The water pump has casting 839403. I found gaskets pictured at Chevs of the 40s and for the bigger gasket it says "For 1937 1938 1939 1940 Chevrolet Cars and Trucks" and for the smaller gasket it says "For 1941 1942 1944 1945 1946 1947 1948 1949 1950 1951 1952 1953 1954 Chevrolet Cars and Trucks" .
Any idea what I've got for an engine? Is it an older block and newer head? If that's possible I'm also going to include a picture of the plate that goes on between the pump and engine.
A day without laughter is a day wasted- Charlie Chaplin When wrestling a grizzly bear, you have to keep at it until the bear gets tired, not when you get tired. 1948 Chevy 2-Ton
Yes, I forgot to include those, CON 4, D 166. That only tells me it was conveyor 4, April 16, the 6 means the 6th year of the decade, but which decade, 46, 56, 66?
A day without laughter is a day wasted- Charlie Chaplin When wrestling a grizzly bear, you have to keep at it until the bear gets tired, not when you get tired. 1948 Chevy 2-Ton
A day without laughter is a day wasted- Charlie Chaplin When wrestling a grizzly bear, you have to keep at it until the bear gets tired, not when you get tired. 1948 Chevy 2-Ton
If the block has two small holes in the front up near the cylinder head, you've got a 1954 or early 55 235 engine. Late 55 through 62 has a big hole in the block (about 3" in diameter) and the water pump impeller projects back into the block. 216 and early pressure-oiled 235s have the same style of water pump, one where the impeller is behind a flat steel plate, outside the block. An 848 head is from a later model 235, around 57 to 62 or so. It will bolt onto the earlier 54-55 235 block. Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
Please post the stamped serial number on the machined pad behind the distributor. That's going to be more useful than the casting numbers, as it will usually identify not only the general age of the block, but the specific application and year of the vehicle it was installed in originally. The block casting number is also helpful- - - -down near the oil pan rail near the fuel pump hole. Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
I wrote the information that is on the machined pad on the first post, but here's a photo of it. Also a photo of where the block casting number should be, but there is no number there.
A day without laughter is a day wasted- Charlie Chaplin When wrestling a grizzly bear, you have to keep at it until the bear gets tired, not when you get tired. 1948 Chevy 2-Ton
If the block has two small holes in the front up near the cylinder head, you've got a 1954 or early 55 235 engine. Late 55 through 62 has a big hole in the block (about 3" in diameter) and the water pump impeller projects back into the block. 216 and early pressure-oiled 235s have the same style of water pump, one where the impeller is behind a flat steel plate, outside the block. An 848 head is from a later model 235, around 57 to 62 or so. It will bolt onto the earlier 54-55 235 block. Jerry
In my original post I included the plate that you mention with the two small holes, so it's a 1954 or early 55 with a newer head on it. Sure gets confusing when it becomes a "Franken-engine", with mixed year components. Maybe you can tell me more about the serial number.
A day without laughter is a day wasted- Charlie Chaplin When wrestling a grizzly bear, you have to keep at it until the bear gets tired, not when you get tired. 1948 Chevy 2-Ton
That plate looks like the relocation plate to raise the water pump up and use the older pump. I'm guessing you have the bigger round hole on the front of your block?
~ John in Utah 1946 1/2Ton w/4-speed manual transmission w/1960 235 engine Here We Go Follow in his DITY Bay
- If you think about it, it has been one year ago today!
If its a 56 block, the head might be correct. Take the valve cover off. Carb side, about the middle of the head, you should see the casting date for the head.
FYI, that plate is the stock plate used on 1941-55 first series. I have never seen this “early high mount “ pump used after that except on crate engines sold for earlier replacement.
That plate looks like the relocation plate to raise the water pump up and use the older pump. I'm guessing you have the bigger round hole on the front of your block?
No, it has the two holes. Not the one large one. From the serial number it's been cleared up that it is a 1955.
A day without laughter is a day wasted- Charlie Chaplin When wrestling a grizzly bear, you have to keep at it until the bear gets tired, not when you get tired. 1948 Chevy 2-Ton
I don't see the F55 suffix number listed, so it's possible you have a replacement block with the high water pump mount position that was cast after the switch was made to the low water pump position. The lack of a casting number behind the fuel pump reinforces that possibility. John Milliman's 261 engine is one of those- - - -a high pump block with a 1959 casting date code. That little detail almost derailed a rebuild when we ordered the wrong main bearings, based on the belief that we had a 1954 production block! Lots of little details can be overlooked when working on a 70 year old engine, especially one that's been rebuilt a few times! Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
Yes, it certainly gets to be what Kyle Carter from Carter Automotive when he talks about "Automotive Archeology". Getting to learn a little more about this engine every time a problem arises. I am glad that some of hte parts suppliers put photos up. I could tell which gaskets I needed to order. The truck is a 1948 two ton, but I was told the engine was newer. I just got confused trying to find the correct gaskets for the water pump. I am pretty sure the pump is good, if not it could get interesting again. Thanks for all the help and information.
A day without laughter is a day wasted- Charlie Chaplin When wrestling a grizzly bear, you have to keep at it until the bear gets tired, not when you get tired. 1948 Chevy 2-Ton
If the pump is no good, there are a few competent rebuilders out there that can repair yours. There are also kits to do it yourself, if desired. Also, brand new pumps are available for about $50, I think. I would buy a new one as last resort, however, as the quality of virtually all new parts these days is highly unreliable.
1950 Chevrolet 3100 (Ol' Roy)
1939 Packard Standard Eight Coupe (The Phantom) | 1956 Cadillac Coupe de Ville (The Bismarck) | 1964 Ford Galaxie 500 coupe |1966 Ford Mustang (Little Red) | 1969 Pontiac GTO (The Dishpit) I 1979 Ford F-100 | 1976 Ford F-150 (Big Red) | 1995 Ford F-150 (Newt)
If the block has two small holes in the front up near the cylinder head, you've got a 1954 or early 55 235 engine. Late 55 through 62 has a big hole in the block (about 3" in diameter) and the water pump impeller projects back into the block. 216 and early pressure-oiled 235s have the same style of water pump, one where the impeller is behind a flat steel plate, outside the block. An 848 head is from a later model 235, around 57 to 62 or so. It will bolt onto the earlier 54-55 235 block. Jerry
I have one more question from the information that's been posted. Hotrod Lincoln, you mention that it is a 1954 or early 55 235 based on the high mount water pump with the two small holes. You convinced me of that, but the casting numbers on the block that have the conveyor number were CON 4, D 166. That seems to tell me it was conveyor 4, April 16, the 6 means the 6th year of the decade. If that's how the code is read, wouldn't that make it 1956. Is there possibility that they overlapped the production years, going at least into April of 1956? I guess unless we were there, we may never know.
A day without laughter is a day wasted- Charlie Chaplin When wrestling a grizzly bear, you have to keep at it until the bear gets tired, not when you get tired. 1948 Chevy 2-Ton
The plot thickens, I took the valve cover off and the casting number on the top of the head was D 176. That would be April 17th, 1956. It makes sense to me, that the block and the head were cast around the same time, because according to the block's CON 4, D 166 is April 16 of 1956. I think they were assembled together at the factory from those dates. I hope.
A day without laughter is a day wasted- Charlie Chaplin When wrestling a grizzly bear, you have to keep at it until the bear gets tired, not when you get tired. 1948 Chevy 2-Ton
FWIW, that water pump plate looks exactly like the one that came off my '51 216. I think you could either get gaskets for that year water pump or a replacement water pump. My pump had a threaded hole for the heater hose instead of the tubing elbow that yours has (don't know if that connection is threaded on your pump.)
Kevin 1951 Chevy 3100 work truck Follow this saga in Project Journal Photos 1929 Ford pickup restored from the ground up. | 1929 Ford Special Coupe (First car) Busting rust since the mid-60's If you're smart enough to take it apart, you darn well better be smart enough to put it back together.
GM continued to make replacement engines of the earlier design, so it's entirely possible you have an engine that was not installed in a production line vehicle. The change in the body style in 1955, of both cars and trucks, necessitated a lower water pump position for hood clearance for the fan. The radiator was also lowered and widened in 1955, mid-year for the trucks. Replacement engines with the early block casting continued to be made for several years, however, with some internal changes in machining specifications. Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
So the second photo looks like side motor mount bosses. Were side mounts used pre 55.2? With a casting date of April 56, early two hole water pump, and possible side mounts, maybe this was a service replacement motor.
To add to what Dragsix said. I have two 216 engines that were not original to the trucks they came out of. One came out of a 46, but is date coded 1950, and the other came from my 1951 with a documented engine replacement in 1954 (with a 1953 date coded block.) The head date code matched the truck production date. The 1950 engine has no side mount bosses, but the 1953 engine does have threaded side mount bosses. It's possible that service replacement engines were made to use either front mount or side mount (for cars?) [on edit]I took a look at the 1949-1953 Passenger Car Shop manual and came across a description of engine mounts (attached). It makes sense that engines were produced for either car or truck use. Apparently Chevy cars uses the same front mount as the trucks thru 1951, then in 1952 switched to side mounts.
Last edited by klhansen; 12/05/202512:43 AM.
Kevin 1951 Chevy 3100 work truck Follow this saga in Project Journal Photos 1929 Ford pickup restored from the ground up. | 1929 Ford Special Coupe (First car) Busting rust since the mid-60's If you're smart enough to take it apart, you darn well better be smart enough to put it back together.
Paul - A question with a little different thought track on your engine. Is your truck/engine by chance a Canadian Chevy???
If it's a Canadian engine, the block casting number is most likely just above the oil pan rail on the passenger side, in front of the fuel pump location. Below is a snapshot from another Bolters thread on where to find casting codes on some Canadian engines.
Take another look at yours and let us know what you find. If it is a Canadian engine, that could account for the different stamped serial number sequence since yours doesn't match the codes in the US made trucks data file.
PS - Canadian 235's and some 261's also used the "848" heads o there are some similarities to US Chevy's.
~ Dan 1951 Chevy 3 window 3100 Follow this story in the DITY Gallery "My Grandpa Carl's Truck and How it Became Mine" 1966 Chevelle (Wife's Hot Rod) | 2013 Chevy Silverado (Current daily driver) US Army MSG Retired (1977-1998) | Com Fac Maint Lead Tech Retired (1998-2021)
Paul - A question with a little different thought track on your engine. Is your truck/engine by chance a Canadian Chevy???
If it's a Canadian engine, the block casting number is most likely just above the oil pan rail on the passenger side, in front of the fuel pump location. Below is a snapshot from another Bolters thread on where to find casting codes on some Canadian engines.
Take another look at yours and let us know what you find. If it is a Canadian engine, that could account for the different stamped serial number sequence since yours doesn't match the codes in the US made trucks data file.
PS - Canadian 235's and some 261's also used the "848" heads o there are some similarities to US Chevy's.
No, I don't think it's a Canadian Truck. I brought it up from Seattle to Canada, and before that it was in Wisconsin. That space on the block in front of the fuel pump has 15 with GM below that.
A day without laughter is a day wasted- Charlie Chaplin When wrestling a grizzly bear, you have to keep at it until the bear gets tired, not when you get tired. 1948 Chevy 2-Ton
That plate looks like the relocation plate to raise the water pump up and use the older pump.
Here is a photo of “Pre ‘68 Dave’s” relocation plate.
Phil Moderator, The Engine Shop, Interiors and Project Journals
1952 Chevrolet 3100, Three on the Tree, 4:11 torque tube Updated to: ‘59 235 w/hydraulic lifters, 12v w/alternator, HEI, PCV and Power front Disc Brakes Project Journals Stovebolt Gallery Forum
Just an FYI- - - -I have a 1948 production 216 that has the same ID number that's on the machined pad behind the distributor stamped into the gasket surface for the pushrod cover, at the front of the block. I don't think I've seen that on other stovebolts. That one also has "48" cast inside a circle similar to the one in a photo above. No idea where that block came from, it was acquired in one of my horsetrades! Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
