The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area The HiPo Shop Blown/nitrous 292 update.

I have been working on other things for my Drag and Drive 53 3100 build than the engine. I have been hung up on finding a way to mount my Ryan Falconer V-12 head on it and hold 1200-1300 HP. The plan was to have a 1" deck plate furnace brazed to the engine and drill it for the V-12 bolt pattern and sleeve the engine. A few problems arised other than money. I can't find anyone that does it anymore and the people that have the equipment are not interested in the least. I have also found out that it somehow messes with the metallurgy of the cast iron. It also may warp the block in general. Other than those things no problem. Staring at it for the last couple of years hasn't helped as much as I hoped. So I decided to do the right thing and find some header flanges for it. 2 days ago I called Ryan and ask him if he had any. He directed me to the people that make them for him, SPD Exhaust. They said they would have to make them so I ordered a set of 3X2 3/8" stainless flanges with 2" tubes ($320). I told them no rush. They called me yesterday and said they were on their way. It pays to be nice to people. While I had Ryan on the phone I brought up our ongoing discussion about mounting the head. My problem with bolting it on is that it requires a gasket between the deck and the deck plate. This moves during heat cycles and messes with the sleeves. I saw a picture of a 4 cylinder deck plate that had the sleeves integrated in it. I ask Ryan about it and he sent me to "Darton Sleeves". They very politely said "no thank you" but they did give me the number of the builder they use for their custom work. Steve that has "Race Engine Development" in SoCal. I got him on the phone and he didn't hang up on me when I said Chevy inline 6 so that was a win. He seems to have the right amount of crazy and is interested in the project. He comes very highly recommended. He's pretty confident he can do it with an aluminum plate with sleeves and bolt it on. I'm not going to second guess him. Ryan will send him anything he needs. He's going to play with the idea and said to call him after the first of the year. If you have made it this far I have a question for you. Tom L. mentioned why not start with a 250 block and end up with the same deck height. Wouldn't that give me room for a 1.75" deck plate and lots of thread engagement? The question Steve ask me was is the 250 block just as strong as the 292 block? Is the only difference in the castings the stroke? Sorry I made a book out of this. Thank you for your time.

Mick,

I think what you’re attempting is very cool. Are you a member of Inliners? I was just thinking maybe someone there might have already come up with some solutions.

John

A 250 block is a lot shorter- - - -that's why the 292 has taller side covers. Why not use flanged sleeves that project a few thousandths above the top of the block and seat directly onto the aluminum spacer plate, like Volkswagen air cooled engines do with the cylinder head to barrel junction? LA Sleeve can make just about anything you can dream up. You can use a thin solid copper shim gasket if necessary to seal coolant. I'm working on adapting a Chrysler PT Cruiser twin overhead cam cylinder head to a Ford Model A engine block, using a similar adapter plate and flanged sleeve setup.
Jerry

I used to be a member. I'm not anymore. I'm not qualified to make these decisions. I think I have the right guy on the job. We'll see how it works out. My job is to dream stuff up, find the right people and come up with the money. I don't know why these industry leaders talk to me but I have found being sincere and polite goes a long way. I never rush them and don't question the prices. I'm retired now and not a rich man but I have no debt. I have been offered a project superintendent's job on an O'Reilly Auto Parts store near my house in the spring. I just watch. I've built several. They are easy. They take about 12 weeks and I make about $25K on one. That will go a long way to finishing my engine.

Sounds like a good time

The 250 block has a weak head bolt at the right front corner. The water pump opening crowds the head bolt. If you torque the head down with the same torque on all the bolts, you cn easily break the block. That one bolt gets less torque. I broke the first one I built, it seeped coolant for a couple years till I changed it out. The 292 doesn't have that issue. Camshafts are also different. I would bet the rest of the block is very similar.

Perhaps this was already asked:
Does the V12 engine have the same 4.40" bore pitch as the 250/292 L6?

Thanks I'll pass that on. I think he's more concerned about the bottom end but I'll leave that to the experts. That is not me.Yes it does. The valve order is different. The V-12 head alternates instead of being grouped to avoid hot spots. The push rod angle is off but I think manageable. If I remember with my crude measuring method the worst on was 4 degrees offset. Most were under 1.5 degrees. Some of the big block heads has crazy push rod angles.

I don't know what is going on with my posting. Lately it has been saying it didn't post because I have a "fatal error". I don't know what that is but it doesn't sound good. Then when I try to repost it it says it's already been posted and is is. I know even less about computers than I do engines and that's not much.

That fatal error thing is pretty common lately. The post will actually go thru, so you don't need to try and repost. Just go back into the forums and it'll be there. Someday the software people will get it fixed. They've been notified about it.

Thanks.

Do you have a plan for the pushrod cover yet?

I don't really. I have a concept of a plan and that seems to be enough these days. LOL. I think the top will have to be incorporated in the intake manifold. Hogan ballparked the intake at $7k a couple of years ago. I think that was their whatever it takes price. That heavy 6-71 will be hanging off the hot chick side of the engine and will need some support. The stresses when landing are going to be pretty high. I don't know how strong they are but I was thinking of using the cover bolt holes for a support mounting and working the covers from there. I can probably make the covers but sometimes Send Cut Send is less money than buying the material.

You may need to add a strut off the side engine mount going to the bottom of the Intake manifold.

No doubt. That blower setup complete has to be pushing 100 LBS. I probably should weigh it. Hogan will need that when they make the intake. I can't see that hanging off the aluminum head with no support. I also need to run 3 water lines out of the intake. Hogan says they are up to the challenge. Ball park $7K. They said they are familiar with the Falconer head.

There's a work around on the "fatal error". Right click and hit "refresh" and the post will appear on your screen. Select "edit" and submit (without making any changes) and the post will come up in its proper sequence. I've been doing that for weeks!
Jerry

Thanks for the advice but it seems to work so far. I suck at computers. I went back to collage a couple of years ago and got another degree (#9), I know crazy. The hardest part for me was using the computer for my classes. They don't offer any classes in using a computer because I seemed to be the only one on campus who needed it. I hung out at the library a lot and bugged people. I'm older than the Dean. LOL.

I got my header flanges for my 292 from "Speciality Design Products" 3/8" stainless with 2" tubes.

It's starting to look almost like you could have a Falconer style head actually made to bolt up native to a 292, and it might not cost much more than doing what you're doing. Hear me out.. For grins, I emailed a Chinese outfit with a good reputation, concerning the possibility of making some new aluminum alloy cylinder heads for a Cadillac V8. They said they would need two sample heads, one of which to cut up, and that it would cost ten grand. Which.. actually seems really reasonable to me. I guess modern 3D modeling and printing of the casting elements really cuts down on the cost of engineering and making something like a cylinder head, in quantities smaller than 50 units.

They can make anything from a lawnmower up to good size industrial diesel engines, so a car or truck size head (or if you have the money, the whole engine) isn't beyond their abilities at all. If there's any interest, I could get some info together.

For reference, some other Cadi guys were talking about how it would cost forty to fifty grand to have a US based outfit do the job-and that would be based on already extant plans for the Bulldog heads that CMD once had made, so the engineering work was done previously.

A friend had a new engine block cast for a $500,000 1908 Thomas Flyer.

The transport company had explicit instructions not to start the car but did so anyway. Piston rod came through the block.

Insurance paid to have a new block cast using the method you describe. It indeed was $50,000+

Thanks but I don't see any reason to reinvent the wheel. The Falconer head is really nice and tested. It flows 340I/220E. I don't think the stock deck or bolt pattern is stout enough to hold the HP I'm after anyway.

That's crazy. I've heard so many horror stories like that over the years. Probably a good idea to disable them for shipping.

With enough craziness, virtually anything can be accomplished. Currently, I'm working out the details to put a twin cam, 16 valve PT Cruiser cylinder head on a Model A Ford block!
Jerry

This was a mover that specialized in classic cars. I have no idea what they thought they were doing. It was being transported to a Concourse d'Elegance at Fort MacPherson / Tyler Perry studios.