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on the Internet for over 30 years! and not clogged down with Ads! Again, thanks! | | | | Joined: Jan 2020 Posts: 68 'Bolter | | 'Bolter Joined: Jan 2020 Posts: 68 | Does anyone know the spec for a 1950 Chevy 3100 front end, toe-in, caster, and camber. It is all original expect I installed modern tie rod ends? Taking it in for an alignment next week and I need the specs.
Mike
| | | | | Joined: May 2015 Posts: 11,014 Housekeeping (Moderator) Making a Stovebolt Bed & Paint and Body Shop Forums | | Housekeeping (Moderator) Making a Stovebolt Bed & Paint and Body Shop Forums Joined: May 2015 Posts: 11,014 | From the Service Manual Caster (degrees) - 1-3/4 +/- 1/2 Camber (degrees) - 1 +/- 1/2 Kingpin Inclination (degrees) - 7d 10' +/-1d Toe-in 1/16"-3/16" Toe-out on turns: Outside Wheel (degrees) 20 Inside wheel (degrees) 23 +/-2
Kevin 1951 Chevy 3100 work truckFollow this saga in Project JournalPhotos 1929 Ford pickup restored from the ground up. | 1929 Ford Special Coupe (First car) Busting rust since the mid-60's If you're smart enough to take it apart, you darn well better be smart enough to put it back together. | | | | | Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 29,752 Kettle Custodian (pot stirrer) | | Kettle Custodian (pot stirrer) Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 29,752 | Finding a shop that's equipped to bend and/or twist a stovebolt axle to get the right settings will be a challenge. Unless your alignment tech has been drawing Social Security for a while, he's probably never heard of doing that, let alone ever done it successfully. Good luck! Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
| | | | | Joined: May 2015 Posts: 11,014 Housekeeping (Moderator) Making a Stovebolt Bed & Paint and Body Shop Forums | | Housekeeping (Moderator) Making a Stovebolt Bed & Paint and Body Shop Forums Joined: May 2015 Posts: 11,014 | Unless the vehicle has been in an accident bad enough to bend the axle, the stuff like camber caster or kingpin inclination out of spec between sides likely wouldn't be an issue. Overall caster can be dealt with by shims. Toe-out on turns might need the spindle arms being tweaked a bit, but again, unless those have been bent over the years, they should be OK.
Kevin 1951 Chevy 3100 work truckFollow this saga in Project JournalPhotos 1929 Ford pickup restored from the ground up. | 1929 Ford Special Coupe (First car) Busting rust since the mid-60's If you're smart enough to take it apart, you darn well better be smart enough to put it back together. | | | | | Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 29,752 Kettle Custodian (pot stirrer) | | Kettle Custodian (pot stirrer) Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 29,752 | Things must have changed pretty radically since the 1950s and 60s when Dad's business partner who also did the wheel alignment and frame straightening bent several axles a week to bring them into factory specs. Of course, he also made about1/2 degree difference in caster settings from side to side to compensate for road crown. That can't be done with shims. Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
| | | | | Joined: Oct 2021 Posts: 6,711 'Bolter | | 'Bolter Joined: Oct 2021 Posts: 6,711 | Roads and tires have improved dramatically since then so I imagine there's a lot less chance for steering components to get really far out of wack.
1950 Chevrolet 3100 (Ol' Roy)
1939 Packard Standard Eight Coupe (The Phantom) | 1956 Cadillac Coupe de Ville (The Bismarck) | 1964 Ford Galaxie 500 coupe |1966 Ford Mustang (Little Red) | 1969 Pontiac GTO (The Dishpit) I 1979 Ford F-100 | 1976 Ford F-150 (Big Red) | 1995 Ford F-150 (Newt)
| | | | | Joined: Mar 2010 Posts: 10,272 Renaissance Man | | Renaissance Man Joined: Mar 2010 Posts: 10,272 | Have you checked for play in the kingpins? Are your leaf spring pins and bushings loose? Is your steering box adjusted properly? Are your caster shims in place? All of these items need to be addressed before an alignment can be done. An alignment shop who is capable of aligning your truck should already know this and can check all of that for you. The problem is, there aren't many shops left who know these trucks.
The only alignment which we can do is toe in. If camber, or kingpin inclination is out of spec, your best bet is to find an axle which hasn't been bent in an accident.
1952 5-window - return to "as built" condition | 1950 3100 with a 235 and a T-5 transmission
| | | | | Joined: Jul 2014 Posts: 892 'Bolter | | 'Bolter Joined: Jul 2014 Posts: 892 | It's been a long time since I worked in a big truck shop but we did a lot of axle bending for alignment purposes. Some trucks had been wrecked and some were misaligned from the factory.
Find a big truck shop willing to work on your little truck axle. Modern trucks still have straight axles so I'm betting they are still aligned with shims and Port-a-powers and chains. Oh yes, and heat. Also remember that the arch of your front springs and the load on them will affect caster. 1951 3800 1-ton"Earning its keep from the get-go"In the DITY Gallery1962 261 (w/cam, Fenton headers, 2 carbs, MSD ign.), SM420 & Brown-Lipe 6231A 3spd aux. trans, stock axles & brakes. Owned since 1971. | | | | | Joined: Jan 2020 Posts: 68 'Bolter | | 'Bolter Joined: Jan 2020 Posts: 68 | Just to be clear, the caster and camber can be adjusted with shims? Or is bending required?
Mike
| | | | | Joined: Feb 2016 Posts: 1,982 'Bolter | | 'Bolter Joined: Feb 2016 Posts: 1,982 | Caster can be altered with caster shims, camber is an angle of the combination of king pin inclination and spindle angle, the camber by itself can be adjusted by bending the axle, if the spindle angle is off (bent spindle), the spindle has to be replaced.
1957 Chevrolet 5700 LCF 283 SM420 2 speed rear, 1955 IH 300U T/A, 1978 Corvette 350 auto, 1978 Yamaha DT175, 1999 Harley Davidson Softail Fat Boy
| | | | | Joined: Mar 2010 Posts: 10,272 Renaissance Man | | Renaissance Man Joined: Mar 2010 Posts: 10,272 | If your truck is stock, the stock shims should be there between the axle and the leaf springs. They are thicker at one end than the other. That establishes your caster angle. If they are there, nothing further needs to be checked.
1952 5-window - return to "as built" condition | 1950 3100 with a 235 and a T-5 transmission
| | | | | Joined: Jan 2022 Posts: 2,439 'Bolter | | 'Bolter Joined: Jan 2022 Posts: 2,439 | Caster is adjusted with shims, camber by bending.
'57 GMC 102, Original 347 V8, HydraMatic, 3.08 rear gear, added A/C, disk front brakes, HEI, AFB carb, '98 Honda Black Currant paint. T-boned and totaled 10/12 '52 GMC 152 Stake Bed, Original 228, SM420, added A/C, HEI, disk front brakes, '67 Chev 3.55 rear gear. Gets used as a real truck.
| | | | | Joined: Jan 2008 Posts: 4,961 'Bolter | | 'Bolter Joined: Jan 2008 Posts: 4,961 | The toe in specs are for bias tires. If you are running radials, you will want almost zero toe in. | | | | | Joined: Mar 2010 Posts: 10,272 Renaissance Man | | Renaissance Man Joined: Mar 2010 Posts: 10,272 | The toe in specs are for bias tires. If you are running radials, you will want almost zero toe in. Can I respectfully ask for the reasoning behind this? Is this something which you have discovered, or are there any other sources to support this?
1952 5-window - return to "as built" condition | 1950 3100 with a 235 and a T-5 transmission
| | | | | Joined: Oct 2021 Posts: 6,711 'Bolter | | 'Bolter Joined: Oct 2021 Posts: 6,711 | I think it's because radial tires naturally track straighter than bias plies. Most modern radial specs require almost zero toe or maybe 1/32".
Bias ply tend to follow imperfections in the road and want to push outward while driving so toe-in helps keep the car in a straight line by countering this.
1950 Chevrolet 3100 (Ol' Roy)
1939 Packard Standard Eight Coupe (The Phantom) | 1956 Cadillac Coupe de Ville (The Bismarck) | 1964 Ford Galaxie 500 coupe |1966 Ford Mustang (Little Red) | 1969 Pontiac GTO (The Dishpit) I 1979 Ford F-100 | 1976 Ford F-150 (Big Red) | 1995 Ford F-150 (Newt)
| | | | | Joined: Jan 2008 Posts: 4,961 'Bolter | | 'Bolter Joined: Jan 2008 Posts: 4,961 | I have been running a fleet of trucks for many years. There was much written about the subject in trade journals around 40 years ago when fleets began switching from bias to radial We run almost zero toe in on our trucks now. | | |
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