The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop oil recommendation

So the 53 chevy 3100 with rebuilt 216 is running smooth. The machinist I hired to put the engine in and connect everything up did a fine job. He has a 40 yr. reputation of impeccable work. When I picked the engine up after the rebuild they had put in 10w30 detergent and there was a jug leftover unused that I had
placed in the back of the truck with the engine when I dropped it off at the machinist shop. He said he was going to drain the oil and put in non detergent for the break-in. I called the folks at the rebuild shop and they said run detergent. I showed the machinist the ticket for the re-build which identified all work/parts
done on the rebuild (7K). What is the recommended oil to use when I change it out, with non-det in there currently. They did throw in a bottle of ZZDP. Thanks for input.

I'm sure you will get different thoughts on this. I've been using Valvoline 30w racing oil VR1, high zinc on my 235. Don't know if a different oil is recommended for a 216.

Cheers

Penn Grade One 30 wt break in oil for the break in, then Penn Grade One 10W30. Its essentially the old Kendal GT 1 green oil with an updated additive package, including zzdp and other lubricant enhancers. Described as a semi synthetic. The base dino stock is still refined in Bradford Pennsylvania at the original Kendal refinery using PA crude. I have run that stuff in at least a dozen, if not more, rebuilt early inline chevy 6, including a 261 that I am pretty hard on. Not one single hiccup. Performance flat tappet cam (.492 lift) and all.

DA Lubricants (the old Speed Sport oil) purchased them

https://penngrade1.com/products/hig...nthetic-high-performance-oil-sae-10w-30/

I will second the 10W30 Penn Grade oil, I build several Pontiac V8s a year for local guys and haven't had any issues with flat tappet cams since going to the Penn Grade oil. The only engine that came back with a bad cam was from a guy who changed out the Penn Grade break-in oil for Walmart brand oil he already had. The cam lasted about 50 miles!
In my opinion, from what I read, adding additive isn't always the best thing. Some say it doesn't mix right with some oils. When talking about $4000 + dollar engines, $9 a quart oil doesn't seem all that bad.

Classic Car Club of America contracted DA Lubricants, the makers of Penn Grade, to formulate oil for flat tappet engines.

It has 1600ppm ZDDP and is sold in 15w-40 weight. And it's only $7.00/qt instead of $9.00.

Classic Car Motor Oil https://inrccca.org/product/classic-car-motor-oil/

You're correct about the zinc additive not mixing correctly with the oil. There is no possible way to ensure that an additive is evenly mixed in the crankcase. Of course every time you have to add oil to top up the level, you dilute the mixture anyway.

It makes more sense to buy oil formulated for the job you desire than to try and mix up a home brew yourself.

Otto something seems to be wrong with the link.

Try this one:

https://inrccca.org/product/classic-car-motor-oil/

Classic Car Motor Oil

SAE Viscosity Grade
15W-40

Viscosity
@ 100 °C, cSt = 15.0
@ 40°C, cSt = 112

Viscosity Index
136

Cold Cranking Viscosity
ASTM D5293 (SAE Grade Maximum: 15W- = 7,000)
@ -20°C, cP = 6,600

Cold Pumping Viscosity
ASTM D4684 (SAE Grade Maximum: All Grades = 60,000 cP)
@ -25°C, cP = Less Than 20,000

Borderline Pumping Temperature
ASTM D3829
Maximum -4°F, -20°C
High Temperature/High Shear Viscosity Stability
@ 150°C, TBS, cP = 3.9

Flash Point, COC, °F(°C)
430 (221)

Gravity, API
27.6

Sulfated Ash, Wt. %
1.5

Total Base Number
11 ASTM D2896

Zinc (ppm)
1,600

Thanks Otto and all others... some good info, will garage the truck in Iowa Nov-Feb Oil pressure starts up around 14-16 then drops to approx 10-12. I grew up driving at 12 yrs old. Lots of wood hauled to the bait shop for campers and water jugs for trees. Do you change every 1000 miles. I drive out to folks farm which round trip is 15 miles and go 35-45 mph 3x a week. Probably change out yearly. Take care all bolters.

General rule of thumb is every 3,000 miles or yearly.

So would the Classic Car Motor Oil mentioned above be better than the Valvoline Racing 30w, high zinc oil that I currently use in my 235?

Here is the thing. I don’t know, and I doubt there is any way to know, whether the classic car motor oil made for the classic car club by DA Lubricants is the same as the Penn Grade One product they sell. Penn Grade One uses a specific type of PA crude for its base stock, and is refined in Bradford Pa. It’s why the stuff has a green color to it. I have actually been there, I had a daughter who went to college there. Zippo lighters are also made there. And, truth be told, I used the Kendal 1 racing oil for years and never once had a failure, same as the PennGrade One.

I just think it’s a good reliable lubricant for use in these old motors and my experience using the stuff proves that out, to me anyhow, lol.

DA has been in the oil biz for a long time. I have a full metal can of their old famous Speed Sport motor oil. They sold that stuff for years. So it’s entirely possible they are blending the classic car oil from another suitable oil stock, just not PA base crude, and not refined at the former Kendal refinery, but has all the other additives as the Penn Grade One.

For the 12 dollar difference between the cost of 6 quarts, pretty negligible so maybe consider using the name brand stuff.

Admittedly, I'm pushing my stovebolt harder and longer than most guys but..

FWIW Shell Rotella T 3 15/40 has 1200+/- ppm zddp and similar specs to the Classic Car oil otherwise, maybe a little better on the cold cranking viscosity and is readily available on the road. For me drain interval and high temp stability are important which is why I don't use Valvoline VR-1 anymore. As the video recently posted points out, racing oils are presumed to be drained frequently. I've found that my oil consumption is lower with Rotella than with VR1. VR-1 starts out OK but after a couple thousand miles it goes up to about a qt./800 mi. However, I do use it in my Norton motorcycle.

Dragsix, if you contact DA Lubricants, I bet you can get a spec sheet like the one I posted for the CCCA motor oil and compare the two side by side.

Cmayna, same thing. Get the specs for the Valvoline racing oil and compare. Does it say on the l;abel how much zddp is in it?


Speedway Motors has a chart with lots of different oils listed.

Valvoline VR1 has 1300ppm zddp

Shell Rotella T series oils 1450ppm
PennGrade 1 is listed as containing 1500ppm, so according to this chart it isn't the same formulation as Classic Car Motor Oil.

Mobil 1 Racing oil is 1850 ppm

Something I learned from the Motor Oil Geek on YT…..

Can’t look at ZDDP levels in a vacuum. Detergents like Calcium are antagonistic and reduce the effectiveness of the Zinc.

Modern diesel oils due tend to have high ZDDP levels but also tend to have much higher detergent levels. His recommendation for older flat tappet engines is something more like VR1. High ZDDP but low detergent package.

I’m switching my truck over to VR1. It’s really not terribly expensive.

If you live in a place like Dallas (where we have what qualifies as summer temp over 200 days a year and what qualifies as the waiting room for hades for almost that many days a year) I'd suggest straight 30 weight VR-1. For what it is worth, I've lived here over 50 years and I've never used anything but 30 weight. I change it twice a year just because of condensation, etc. unless I exceed 6000 miles a year and then I just change it every 3000 miles.

If you watch Amazon regularly VR-1 will go up and down in price. About a month ago it was a bit less than $30 for a case of 6 quarts.

Just my 2 cents worth. Please spend it wisely.

Here we go

https://penngrade1.com/wp-content/u...tic-Blend-High-Performance-Oils-2022.pdf

Regarding ZDDP, how much is enough? I suppose that depends on valve spring pressure and cam lift rates, both of which are low on a Stovebolt.

Straight 30 is heavier than what GM specified back in the day, IIRC it was 20/20W.

I've run much heavier oils than that in mine with no apparent problems, like say, 20/50 but with the 6V battery the starter didn't like to start it in winter. So I switched to DELO 15/40, that I got for free from draining the compartments of the tankers I drove before the next load. Otherwise it went in the transmix tank to go back to the refinery at the company's expense. When I retired I had about 20 gal. of DELO. That's all gone now so I have to buy the stuff. I got over 200K out of the 235 before it burnt a piston so DELO must have been OK. But since I retired in 08 they cut the ZDDP in DELO. So now I'm at the mercy of the oil flame wars.

I just remembered a GM bulletin from the 80s where they warned against using 10/40 because the polymers coked up on the pistons and froze up the oil rings and wrist pins lost lubrication. I don't remember who they were pointing the finger at back then but I avoided 10/40 like the plague for decades. I haven't heard anything about that in recent years, though.

10w-40 from 40 years ago isn't anything like the 10w-40 from today, though.

I use 10w-30, 10w-40, 15w-40, and 20w-50 in all of my vehicles depending on which it is and have never had an oil related problem.

I was in high school auto shop in 1988, and the 10w40 oil issues were discussed, as at time there may have still been active lawsuits in progress. However 10w40 oil today is perfectly safe.

The oil was never an issue- - - -General Motors invented the whole thing to hide a design malfunction on certain engines. An EGR passage near the #6 cylinder on small block Chevy engines caused the cylinder head to overheat and coke the oil around a pushrod- - - - -which caused the pushrod to jam and wear out a camshaft lobe. 10W40 oil had enough polymers to do that before the warranty expired, although it would happen eventually with any oil, regardless of weight. GM invented the "Don't use 10W-40" myth to avoid replacing engines under warranty. I was teaching auto mechanics in a Tennessee state trade school and attending GM training center seminars every year while that was happening- - - - -mostly on high performance 305 Chevy engines with QJ carburetors and aluminum intake manifolds. I've had to drive stuck pushrods out of cylinder heads with a hammer and a punch at times. GM wouldn't identify a specific brand of oil that was common to most of the failures, but there was a "Q" and an "S" in their logo!
Jerry

I remember hearing that "urban legend" about Quaker State when I was a kid. People said it was becauuse it had too much parrifin wax in it that gummed up the engine. Probably related to the GM stories.

is your engine rebuilt? VRI sounds good, decent flow in cold weather? In Iowa i may drive when its 20-30 degrees out but nothing lower.
52 3100- thanks, Lynn