The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop fuel pump on a '54 235

i put a '54 235 in my '52 chevy 3100.
i had trouble starting it the other day and after prowling around the ignition system i looked over at the carburator, which has been leaking quite a bit and it was bone-dry.
i checked the fuel line from the tank and to the carb and they were unobstructed.
i can only conclude that the pump is shot, i bought an electric pump to get me by, i plan on putting it in tonight then i can pull the pump and have a look.
anybody have any ideas?
anyone know where i can get a plate to cover the hole left by the pump?

Remember to check your fuel filter. That cost me alot of money to figure out on mine. Jegs has fuel pump cover plates.

thanks, yeah it doesn't have a filter right now, maybe that was part of the problem. i bought one to put on with this pump.
thanks for letting me about jegs!

it will be nice to always have a backup pump waiting in the wings.

have you tried a tablespoon of fuel in the carb to see if it fires over?
Fuel pressure should be only around 4 to 8 psi.
With the engine cool, take the line loose at the carb and plumb in a hose that you can put into a clear plastic bottle. Gallon or half gallon will work.
(Make sure it is secured,,both hose and jug).
Disconnect the coil wire from the center of the distributor cap and secure it to a good ground on the engine block with an alligator clip(this keeps the engine from starting and keeps any sparks from occurring,, will not hurt ANYTHING by grounding it)
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See how much fuel goes into the bottle with three or four revolutions of the engine

i didn't put some fuel in the carb to make sure it fires, but i did disconnect the fuel line at the carb and turn the engine over quite a few times and no fuel came out of the line at all.

I would not put an electric fuel pump on these trucks. Especially with a badly leaking cab. What pressure is that pump? It might shoot fuel out of that leak like crazy. The stock pumps are pretty cheap and I think most places like Napa carries them.

thanks, i haven't put it in yet, i'll give napa a call.

My experience with the electric pump was that it forced the carb to be way too rich and fouled plugs right away. :p

Well, before you go replacing parts that do not need to be replaced, try a tablespoon of fuel in the carb and put the air cleaner on,,,also known as an anti-backfire FLAME arrestor

thanks,i'll give it a shot
but wouldn't fuel come out of the line from the pump to the carb when i turned over the engine if it was disconnected from the carb?

I should mention that the pump is fairly simple to check out. If nothing is coming through it, pull it off (capping the fuel line) and exeercise it by hand. If you have to, pull the diaphragm cover to access the diaphragm. There may be some crud in the pump which could be cleaned out.
Another good thing to check is the line from the tank. I have shot air into the line to blow it free and dislodge junk in the tank which may have collected around the outlet choking off the fuel.

Aree,

I just put a new fuel pump on my 216. It pumps fuel like crazy. I would have to agree with the others and say stay away from an electric. You may want to just change out your fuel line from the tank to the pump. Mine looked good in engine compartment, but had cracks in it under the cab. I don't know about an AD, but it was easy on my 46.

I have had an electric pump on my 48, 235 for 6 months now without any known problems. My truck is a daily driver. My spare engine has a fuel pump on it. Should I change it back to mechanical?
Ralph

i'll pull it and have a look at it.
it's easy to pull?

Very easy to pull, but keep a shop manual handy if you are new to this. For what it's worth, I usually start on the fuel system with the gas tank. I pull that, and have it boiled out and lined to seal pinholes at my local radiator shop. They do a lot of gas tanks and are very reasonable, around $80 turnaround. Then or while that is happening, I bend new fuel line from the tank to the pump, and from the pump to the carb. I install an inline filter, usually the glass bowl type if available. This way I know what I have is good.
I can now move on the carb if needed, knowing I have no fuel delivery issues.

good advice!
i don't have a shop manual, will it be obvious?
my van is a daily driver so would have to plan a couple of days to get that detailed with fuel system.

I'm not saying do it this way, you can disconnect the fuel line at the pump and use a squeeze bulb to send a air back into the tank. The pump is just two bolts and two fuel lines in and out to remove. You should be able to pump the shoe that rides on the cam and get evidence of positive pressure output.
My route is based on repeats of the same problems and using that education to deal with the usual suspects. Dirt, rust, water, and varnish in the gas tank can really cascade into all sorts of problems.

ya-know i just realized that when i pulled the fuel line off of the tank, there was no fuel in the line, maybe the problem is in the tank.

Here's my test procedure, which I've used for about 40 years. First, get enough fuel into the carb to keep the engine running for a short time, either by filling the float chamber through the bowl vent tube, or some other means. Use a gravity-feed small tank if necessary. Disconnect the fuel line from the carb, and run a rubber line into a catch container like a 2-liter Coke bottle or something similar. Use enough hose to keep the catch bottle away from any ignition source like the spark plug wires, etc. Start the engine, and idle for 30 seconds. You should get about a pint of fuel pumped into the catch bottle. If that check is OK, you probably don't have a fuel system poroblem. If not, and there's any flow at all, proceed to the next test, which is fuel pressure. Use a pressure gage that will read up ro about 10 pounds, and attach it securely to the carb inlet line. At idle, the pump should develop 4-5 pounds of pressure, and hold it for a short time after the engine is stopped. This checks the output check valve in the pump. Then go to the pump inlet fitting and attach a vacuum gage. Run the engine, or At least crank it, and you should get about 10" of vacuum from a good pump, and it should also hold the reading for a few seconds after the pump stops. This checks the inlet check valve. Good so far? Go to the tank outlet, and check vacuum at the line going toward the pump. Same, or at least slightly lower vacuum reading should be present at the tank. This checks the line for restrictions or holes. If all the above checks except volume are OK, the problem is a restriction inside the tank!
Jerry

thanks! looks saturday will be the day

I've been dealing with my '54 today on the same issues. The truck sat for a couple years, I suspected bad gas, although there was not much in the tank. Have put in fresh gas and some fuel conditioner. Pouring a little gas into the carb will get the motor running, but only until the carb bowl is empty. I have gas to the carb, but maybe not enough volume.
Tomorrow I'm going to look at the flex hose under the tank to see if it has collapsed or deteriorated. Disconnecting the fuel line from the sender on top of the tank will prevent fuel from siphoning while checking the hose underneath the tank.
I'm going to pick up a can of carb cleaner to spray in case it may have jellied gas inside... There is no end to the fun...

Good news! The flex hose under the tank was choking off the gas. Replaced it, and reconfigured the fuel line so the hose was not in a bind.
Then used Sea-Foam conditioner in the tank plus a little with prime gas for carb. Finally it started to run, each time a little longer until the old gas and air was purged. Then I could get to the needle valve and idle adjustments. It stumbled at first, but ran better as time allowed the good fuel to circulate. Got it good and hot, running about 30 minutes before shutting down.
Now time to finish the brakes!!!

the first thing i did was blow back through the fuel line to the tank ..... it was clogged in the tank! after getting everything hooked back up, the pump was pumping fuel just fine, however there was no spark, i replaced the distributer cap, condenser, points, rotor and coil and now it runs great!
now i am sure i should pull the tank and get that dealt with or it will no doubt happen again, what is the best approach to cleaning out the tank?

also, while all this was going on i had a back tire off for repair and i noticed that while it was ideling that the wheel slowly turned forward, is this right?

Pull the tank! Find a good radiator shop with experience boiling out and re-lining gas tanks. Should be less than $100 for a clean tank with an anti-rust alchohol resistant liner. Look over the sender unit. it may need to be replaced or repaired. If the bottom of the draw pipe is rusty, you could splice a repair piece to it. One of those small outboard type gas tanks could get you around in a pinch using some hose to splice to the fuel pump.
You won't regret having a clean tank.

thanks! will do

also, while all this was going on i had a back tire off for repair and i noticed that while it was ideling that the wheel slowly turned forward, is this right?