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Joined: Jan 2024
Posts: 89
3
'Bolter
'Bolter
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Joined: Jan 2024
Posts: 89
The truck is a 1957 3100 with a 4 speed floor shift Muncie SM420 transmission. The previous owner had transmission issues and installed a rebuilt transmission which I believe came from a '59. (59 printed in yellow paint on the case) Lots of issues repaired on the truck with the help of the forum. Lots of short round-the-block trips taken. Yesterday was the first day for a 20 mile trip to see how the truck was doing. According to the rebuilt speedometer we hit about 50 mph. All seemed good. Pulled into the driveway and a small puddle of transmission 90w appeared. Then pulled it into the garage with my intent to check it out today. Large puddle (12" x 8") under the transmission. It was not engine oil. Smelled like 90w and was clear. Coming from the front of the transmission. So off I went looking for availability of a front seal. From what I read, the 420 does not have a front seal. Correct? But I also saw a note that later ones might have had a neoprene front seal. So, does anyone know at which casting number, or even year, that a neoprene seal was used? Also, if this transmission is not supposed to have a seal, what has worn, and what is the remedy? I hope there is some good news out there. Thanks in advance!


1957 3100, 235 with 4 speed floor shift
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,460
B
'Bolter
'Bolter
B Offline
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,460
Where is the fluid level now?


BC
1960 Chevy C10 driver 261 T5 4.10 dana 44 power loc
1949 GMC 250 project in waiting
1960 C60 pasture art
Retired GM dealer tech. 1980 - 2022
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 229
P
'Bolter
'Bolter
P Offline
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 229
I used Novak as they specialize in the Muncie SM 420. You can get everything you need there including the upgraded front seal that does require machining to your input shaft housing and all seals plus advice!

Joined: Jan 2024
Posts: 89
3
'Bolter
'Bolter
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Joined: Jan 2024
Posts: 89
I had heard about Novak. I will pursue that.
As far as the fluid lever, I will get back to you shortly.


1957 3100, 235 with 4 speed floor shift
Joined: Jan 2024
Posts: 89
3
'Bolter
'Bolter
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Joined: Jan 2024
Posts: 89
a little tough to tell, but I would guess the fluid level is about 3/8-1/2 inch below the fill plug.


1957 3100, 235 with 4 speed floor shift
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,460
B
'Bolter
'Bolter
B Offline
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,460
I'd drive it & see what happens, may have expelled enough to be good.


BC
1960 Chevy C10 driver 261 T5 4.10 dana 44 power loc
1949 GMC 250 project in waiting
1960 C60 pasture art
Retired GM dealer tech. 1980 - 2022
Joined: Jan 2024
Posts: 89
3
'Bolter
'Bolter
3 Offline
Joined: Jan 2024
Posts: 89
So, are you suggesting the transmission was overfilled or that if I keep the oil level below the bottom of the seal, then there is no real problem.
BTW, I went through Novak documentation and it appears that the '59 should have the neoprene seal, it is just a major hassle to install it, i.e. pull the transmission.


1957 3100, 235 with 4 speed floor shift
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,460
B
'Bolter
'Bolter
B Offline
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,460
I'd run it & keep an eye on it.


BC
1960 Chevy C10 driver 261 T5 4.10 dana 44 power loc
1949 GMC 250 project in waiting
1960 C60 pasture art
Retired GM dealer tech. 1980 - 2022
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 2,845
C
'Bolter
'Bolter
C Offline
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 2,845
Sounds to me that it was overfilled. Now being 1/2" below the fill plug, I'd just keep and eye on it.


Craig

My '50 Chevy 3100 5 window, '62-235cu, 3:55 rear
My truck ....... Respect The Rust
If I'm not working on my truck, '65 m00stang or VW camper, I'm fishing with the wife or smoking Salmon.
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,334
K
'Bolter
'Bolter
K Offline
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,334
Check the transmission casting to confirm the year .


1954 Canadian GMC 9300
"The Journey"
Follow in the DITY
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,293
Moderator for Tons o' Fun , Co-Moderator Driveline Forum
Moderator for Tons o' Fun , Co-Moderator Driveline Forum
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,293
If the front seal was leaking, fluid would have to travel to the end / front of the input shaft main bearing retainer to leak out and it would drip down and exit out of the hole in the bottom of the dust pan and onto the ground. The 59 front bearing retainer did not have a weep hole.

I think I would bring the oil level back up to the bottom of the fill plug hole and then recheck the level the next time you drive it and see a "puddle". Unless the rebuilder failed to reinstall the oil slinger on the main bearing (input clutch housing) input shaft, there is no reason for transmission oil to be leaking out of the front of the transmission.

Earlier models 1948 -55 did not have the oil seal , but did have a weep hole at 6 o'clock in the bearing retainer housing to prevent fluid from getting near the clutch plate . What I've read is that the seal was added to address problems with fluid leaking in extreme cases where the truck was being operated in steep downhill grades or truck parked on a downhill grade.

Here's some photo's / illustrations that may be helpful. Feel free to private message me if you wish.
Attachments
SM420 Illustration P1.pdf (212.07 KB, 5 downloads)
Illustration p1
SM420 Illustration P2.pdf (286.86 KB, 3 downloads)
Illustration P2
IMG_5991.jpg (206.4 KB, 75 downloads)
Front bearing retainer
Oil Slinger Input Shaft NOS_zps5owk8ofr.jpg (34.9 KB, 75 downloads)
Pic of oil slinger
IMG_5992.jpg (167.4 KB, 75 downloads)
Input shaft


Ron - - Dusty53
1954 Chevy 3604
In the Gallery Forum
"You can't dance with the Devil and then wonder why you're still in Hell."
"They will forget what you've said, and they will forget what you have done but they will never forget the way you made them feel."
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,236
M
'Bolter
'Bolter
M Offline
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,236
What type of transmission lube are you using? It should be SAE 90 Mineral Oil, not 85/90 gear lube ..

Mike B smile


Mike Boteler

1956 Chevy 3100 Resto Rod
1952 Willys M38 Army Jeep
1983 Jeep CJ7 Laredo
1984 Jeep CJ7
+++++
Silver Spring, MD
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,293
Moderator for Tons o' Fun , Co-Moderator Driveline Forum
Moderator for Tons o' Fun , Co-Moderator Driveline Forum
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,293
Guessing the problem got resolved. Always like hearing what was found and what was the solution.


Ron - - Dusty53
1954 Chevy 3604
In the Gallery Forum
"You can't dance with the Devil and then wonder why you're still in Hell."
"They will forget what you've said, and they will forget what you have done but they will never forget the way you made them feel."

Moderated by  Dusty53, SWEET 

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