The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area The Electrical Bay tail lights don't work (1953 Chevy)

Just got my truck on the road again to find my tail lights don’t work. Parking tail lights and brake light). Only the turn signals work with the ignition switch on.
Yesterday the brake lights worked but not the parking light.
I have new tail lights that I added on a couple of years ago.
I don’t think the switch is the problem.
Asking where to begin looking and move forward? The wires on the brake pedal switch are connected. I followed the driver side wire from the tail light to the front.
I didn’t have time to follow the Px side wires.

New primer, body filler, and paint? The tail light bracket needs to make a good ground to the bed, and a good ground from the bed to the frame for the tail lights to work.

I don't think 53 Chevy trucks came from the factory with turn signals and maybe not even a right rear running and brake light. Usually, aftermarket taillights combine the rear brake light and turn signal functions to a single filament on each side. If so, your turn signals working eliminates any problem with the brake lights being any further towards the rear of the truck that the turn signal switch.

Do you have a voltmeter or a test light? Except for inside the turn signal switch, this is easy to test using either.

No sir, none of that.

Yes, they are add on’s with the turn signal. They were working this week except the parking lights. I know because the right rear had 2 broken bulbs that I replaced.
The blinkers work front & rear.
Odd thing is (this is an old thing). The R front blinker blinks if the head lights are off, head lights on, it stays on & don’t blink.
I’ll crawl under the truck when I get going today and follow the tail light wire.
Thanks for advising!

My experience any of the rear lamp stuff….

It’s always a bad ground, even when you’re sure it’s not a ground.

Check the fuse to the tail lights that is mounted on the firewall next to the voltage regulator.
Kent

With odd reaction such as you are seeing I would look at all of the grounds. From there I would start at the tail light assembly a inspect for corrosion in the wiring connections. Depending on how it is wired, the brake lights and turn signal could be the same conductor.

Please advise how many bulbs you have in the right rear tail light and how many in the left. Advise,in the rear, if you have two separate light housings on each side or one housing on each side. I can then give an opinion.

Check your grounds!

Ed

After a lot of head scratching and poking around with a test light….I found that the “housing” of one of my taillights was grounded.

But the little bracket inside that holds both bulbs was not grounded to the housing. Ended up adding a little ground wire off the inner brack with a tiny self tapper and a ring terminal. Ran that wire out the back of the housing and secured to a good ground.

Crazy I spent so much time looking for wires that ran to the rear today. Finally I stared over at the tail lights. Left rear, both bulbs were broken! They are now working fine I think. I’m alone so can’t tell about the brake light.
There is one taillight unit with 2 bulbs in each one. Each bulb has one element. One blinks & the other is a taillight & or brake light.
Now the right rear is the crazy one. The upper blinker & taillight socket works but not the bottom one. I disassembled it to be sure and it works when grounded (as it should but not the lower socket).
It has 2 wires running from the unit. They are wired into a bunch of wires that go to a trailer light. I guess I should remove all of them, very old.

Many of us work alone. We put a stick against the brake pedal and seat or use a mirror or see a red reflection. We try to think outside the bottle. Anyway, sounds like you need to do some metal surface clean up and rewiring. Should take care of a lot of issues. If not, let us know. 24/7/366.

Everyone should have an ice pick voltage tester. It's much better than a meter for most things. Simple, no batteries, no settings, no reading anything, one handed, fast visual result, cheap. First thing is to see if the component is getting voltage. This will identify/eliminate bad switch, bad component, bad wiring, blown fuse, miswiring. Ground is not the first test, it's harder to find ground issues. After you see voltage at the component or it's contacts, then you proceed to other causes. Which is usually ground. Then you can use the ice pick backwards.

For a no light issue, It is a good idea to begin by checking the offending bulb at the battery .....or bulb swap.

Pick Pic

On this most all day. I tore off all of the old home made harness to the trailer lights plug. The right rear parking light still did not work. I had the wire isolated that belongs to that light and connected it to the left light power source, did not shine. I took the unit apart again and began pulling the wire so I could get to the rear of the bulb.Suddenly it came on.
At this point I have it temporarily working like this. I don’t know where this wire was connected (but it is 12 volts) to and I neglected to say that bulb did work for a short time this morning.
There were wires that did not connect to anything, I removed them totally.
I still do not have brake lights
Hopefully I can figure that one out tomorrow!
Thanks everyone for your input again!

Hi Glenn, just to get a overall idea of what you need to see or to insure. Probably already know:
I hope I see two single filament bulbs in each housing? One large bulb, one small bulb.

1. One wire comes from the turn signal switch to the large bulb contact. One separate wire for each side/each large bulb. That's two wires going back. These are the stop/turn wires.
2. One wire comes from the light switch to rear and is split (spliced) to left small bulb and to right small bulb, this is the tail light. (The tail light is the same thing as the parking light). The wire may also be spliced to the license plate light. But just one wire goes back. Total wires going back: 3
3. Brake switch has power to one terminal, other terminal to turn signal switch.
4. Reading your posts is a bit confusing because you go back and forth about different bulbs working ,then not working, then working. I know you are just reporting the situation but it's hard to follow. When you are all done with all the "renewing" you intend to do, then you can tell us the result and if there is any problem. It's my opinion you should wait for that moment instead of describing a minute by minute intermittent electrical issue. I think you are gaining momentum and an understanding of how old and degraded some of your electrical is. You are doing a good job.

Questions
1. Has all the lighting ever worked correctly at the same time?
2. What turn signal switch do you have, brand and model number?
3. How many wires come out of the turn signal switch?
4. Are you sure all bulbs are 12V?

To answer all of the questions cleanly as I can with some pictures.
Turn signal switch is a Grote. It works fine but has a lot of ugly wires coming out from it.
All lights previously worked good. (Other than the R front blinker does not blink if the headlights are on & it’s been that way. It stays on.I think that light is a little more dim than the left).
They are 12 Volt bulbs. Each bulb is single filament. One bulb blinks one bulb is for parking lights & or brake.
So now the brake lights do not come in. I’m confused on how the brake light works with a turn signal or tail light bulb using only single filament bulbs?
I can’t find a hot wire going to the back for the brake light. There is a wire there but it’s not hot with the brake pedal pressed. (It is the greenish held in my hand.

Let me add that the rear parking lights don’t work with the light switch pulled out one notch. I don’t recall them ever working like that. Only when the switch is pulled to the 2nd notch or full out.

Glenn, please reread my wiring explanation at THIS POST from above and read your statements and my comments below. I have PM'ed you

"One bulb blinks one bulb is for parking lights & or brake ."
Incorrect.. see 1 thru 3 in the same post. "Park lights" are tail lights, small bulb. Large bulb does turn and brake.

"I’m confused on how the brake light works with a turn signal or tail light bulb using only single filament bulbs?"
The turn signal switch turns off the brake signal to allow blink on the side selected by you moving the lever.. That's why the brake signal goes to and thru the turn signal switch and not directly to rear. If the brake signal is not turn off, the big bulb would not blink.

"I can’t find a hot wire going to the back for the brake light. There is a wire there but it’s not hot with the brake pedal pressed. (It is the greenish held in my hand."
Read 1 thru 3 in in the same post above. The "wire going back" is two wires going back from the T/S switch. One for each "big bulb". The wire carries a brake signal OR a blink signal as supplied by the turn signal switch.

You missed a few questions. Grote model? How many wires come out of Grote? New question: What are the colors of wires coming out of Grote?

Don't worry if you don't understand my explanations...it took me a long time to learn. Ask what you want to know. No shame or judgement for asking questions. It's the reason for Stovebolt. Stay involved until we get you sorted. In the diagram below, there are other wires to the T/S switch but this is to start with to show the three wires going back.

Grote info online is goofy and misleading. Sometimes no color given. We need to sort that out. Need info about colors and number of wires and Grote model as requested.

Alright, 8 wires coming out. Y, G, B, R, B, W, Gray & Gray.
SAE OOC85.
Of course those wires don’t connect to the same color wires.great start!

Seems to be an older modern T/S incorporating trailer function. 18 wheeler/big truck thing. I kind of recommend changing that out, but if you want to keep it and are game to determine wiring, we can do it. You will need a combination of visual, voltage and comtinuity tests. Do you have a multimeter and an ice pick tester?
Post some more good pics of the Grote and it's wiring. Top, bottom, sides and some wires.

Do you understand my posts? and how rear lights are wired? Did I say anything wrong? Do you have questions? The problem in the front is easy. We will get to that later.

Seems like a little corrosion at grounds, a little miswire and old wire and terminations. Maybe a switch. All typical, lotta work sometimes.
Sorting the T/S wiring destinations will solve 90%.

glennj3, In the hope that it may prove helpful in figuring out your wiring and lighting control issues, attached below is a copy of a "Grote" turn signal device wiring instructions and diagram. The wiring diagram has color codes marked for each wire, which should help you trace your individual light fixtures wiring.

The diagram and instructions provided is based on your picture above of the "Grote" switch shown in your truck. Perhaps fellow Bolter bartamos can use the info and his offered help to guide through further inspection, testing and repair of your lighting?

I looked at about 5 Grote wiring diagrams earlier today. Using his part number. I saw the other parts number diagrams and so far have hesitated to advise how to wire. Together with PO color change and condition of other things. I am leaning on buzzing out.

Not sure if colors are same for all Grotes. Some Grotes have a "headlight" terminal, some have a ground, ground to/from a relay, a pilot, trailer stuff?, etc. Don't like modern Grote for Stovebolt trucks. The SAE OOC85 (probably SAE QQC85) is more of a spec than a part number.
SAE QQC,,,
SAE Q=Turn signal operating units-Class A.
SAE QC=Vehicular hazard warning signal operating unit
85? Year of regulation?

So the Grote PN is unknown. Using Dan's input, what I can see, little blury, and the colors posted by Glenn,
We can buzz this scenario.

1. YEL...Flasher input
2. BLU...Flasher Pilot
3. RED...Right front
4. GRAY....Left rear
5. GRN...Left front
6. BLK...Right rear
7. WHT....ground? don't know what that is for, Switch is grounded by clamp contact usually.
8. GRAY/BLK stripe.... Brake switch input.
Is there Hazard function on the switch?


As for parking lights not working on first position, that's just a small change to headlight switch....or maybe inner fender wires.

We landed on the moon yesterday and have a balloon over U.S. today. We can handle some 1953 tail lights I guess.

Thank you. I’ll get a needle meter, otherwise I I have a couple.
It’s been setting up ether the rear end outside for 7 months while I worked on other things.
I’ll get wiring pictures for you& maybe do texting?

bartamos, Pic below is snagged from glennj3's post above showing the switch mechanism with hazard function switch.

Wondering why the switch "blinker indicator" is taped over with what looks like electrical tape. Maybe used to keep the plug in harness secure to the switch???

Thought I saw indicator out on end of lever?

I put tape over the light years ago because it was annoying. Drop a couple of pictures.

Glenn, too bad there isn't a Southern Bolter (or two) near you that could help out. Here and some of your other concerns. (Hint, hint. Maybe if you offer food, they will come. )

I see what you mean, light in your eyes. Brite too.

Got enough wire nuts?

I can always take someone up in the 1940 Cub. Should find that interesting!

They grow on trees around here!

Check your grounds!

Ed

Are we fixing his coffee maker too?

Does the Cub have turn signals?

I appreciate this help! I’ll be checking it in a couple of hours. I see where most use a 3 prong flasher & a hot wire goes to it. Mine is a 2 wire prong. I don’t see where a hot wire is supposed to go on this set up?
I’m sure there was a short somewhere as while driving I’d see a bright light flashing in the controller as though it was blinking.

Two prong is OK.
X is the hot
L goes to T/S switch
If you had a third, it would be P, which is Pilot, which is either a indicator light on the switch or dash. You can tap into L for this. L is the blink signal.
You can see the X, L , P on Gdads51 diagram of Grote.

"I’m sure there was a short somewhere as while driving I’d see a bright light flashing in the controller as though it was blinking."

Seems like the only place to "see" inside the switch is the indicator window, so it was probably blinking. Was the hazard accidentally on? Jiggle the lever next time to see if it stops.
Are all your bulbs incandescent? No LED? Next time it happens, pull over and see if any lights are flashing, front or rear.

If you add one more problem to this deal you will win a Trophy and a free vacation to Mogadishue, Somalia. Bring a sweater.

I should win a free trip around the world!😂 but I have sticking power!
So where I’m at. Tail lights & blinkers work, flashers work. No LED bulbs. (There are wires on this truck that go to nothing & of course I removed the trailer hitch wiring and I’m removing go no where wires. Note that all of the wire nuts & wires are very tight.
Per using the diagram of the Grote blinker given me, everything works correctly.
Note that this 2 prong flasher’s L is hot with a fuse. The X goes to a yel & Blu wire.
I traced the gray Bill wire to the brake switch, in tact. (So how does that brake switch work?)
So my main problem is (not another problem) but is the same one. No brake light working.
I’ll stop here & let y’all digest this.

That is a GREAT plan.

1. Well be careful with your spelling. "gray Bill" wire?? Don't know what that means. Probably Gray/BLK stripe wire.

2. Wire nuts, no good. Someday change to crimp splice or a connector.

3. Confirm you have three wires going back and they come from the right places per my explanation and diagram.

4. You traced GRY/BLK to brake switch. You say "in tact". In tact is not good enough, does it go from the T/S switch to a terminal on the brake switch?
Is there a wire on the other terminal of the brake switch? Where does it go? Specifically.
The brake switch has a always hot wire to one terminal and the other terminal goes to the T/S switch to be routed to the rear. All it does is switch a hot wire on and off when pedal is pushed. So use your ice pick tester right on the brake switch terminals and see if one side is hot and the other is cold. Then pull brake pedal by hand from under hood or operate brake switch lever by hand and see if both sides are then hot. REPORT result BEFORE doing ANYTHING.

5. "Note that this 2 prong flasher’s L is hot with a fuse. The X goes to a yel & Blu wire."
You have this backwards. Not sure you are reading the explanations carefully.... or maybe just a typo. We are taking a lot of time to explain. Post 1537923 says X is hot (with a fuse is OK). L is flash signal and can be spliced to P/pilot on a two prong (YEL and BLU). DAN'S grote diagram shows this also. In all fairness, the flasher may work if wired backwards.

"I’ll stop here & let y’all digest this."
I'm getting "indigestion" !!!!!!!