The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Paint and Body Shop Epoxy paint and curing times

My info said 80 percent after 12 hrs and full cure in 96. Well, I am 6 days in and it is still very tacky. I put a borrowed ir heater on things last night to see if that will help.

Seems as though every time I spray this stuff I get a different experience.

Ferris, the heater should help but I'm surprised that the paint is not hardnening much quicker. The paint you are using , does it require an activator ?

Something is off, epoxy should cure even in lower temperatures. The catalyst may have been too old or not the correct type or concentration.

Did you thoroughly mix part A, then thoroughly mix part B?
Did you thoroughly mix the combination of the the two parts together?
Did you allow the mixed epoxy primer to sit for the amount of time to catalyze as described by the manufacturer?
I ask these questions because I have failed in the past from not doing these things correctly and had to strip everything off and start over. Gooey primer is no fun to remove.

52 Carl,

I followed directions to a T. Agitated the cans before mixing together. Had to stir for 2 min once tint and reducer was in.

It's wierd. When I did this last December I had the same problem. Then when I sprayed in August it went just as advertised. Only thing that is changing is my air temp out of the compressor.

How are you treating the air from your compressor? condensation and oil removal? clean dedicated air hose for paint spraying? Oil from the compressor will certainly give headaches along with the issues you had earlier with what you considered fisheyes. As the weather gets cooler, you will have more condensation in the compressed air lines, that water also moves oil out of the tank and down the lines, rubber hoses will soak and swell with the oil and contaminate the liquid paint.

What might be the best inline oil/water separator? I plan to paint in 60 deg. temp.

Google "Devilbiss" air compressor or compressed air filters. The more stages of filtration, the better.

Out of compressor into a 50' line. Then a water/oil separator. Dedicated 50' hose for painting with gun mounted entrapment as well.

100 feet of what is essentially a condenser. Can you shorten the amount of line/hose between the compressor and gun? Rig up a separator/filter to hang on a belt around your waist plus a desiccant dryer/filter at the gun. These are just suggestions to reduce the risk of contaminants from the air supply.

Back when DuPont IMRON was the only game in town where epoxy paint was concerned, a friend learned the hard way about curing time. He left some paint in his spray gun after finishing up a job late at night, and found a solid mass of cured paint in the cup, and all the passages of the paint gun the next morning. That was an expensive lesson in what NOT to do when spraying paint containing a catalyst!
Jerry

You need length so the air can cool and condense so the trap can get it. Then I am using the desiccant at the gun so its not a contaminant issue. When I touch the areas the IR heater has been on it is much better vs the parts that haven't seen it yet. I may have to wait till June again but I am hoping not.

Check your manufacturers TDS. Your temp might be a bit low for a good result. Especially if your substrate temp is lower than the ambient.

I found out the hard way about temperature too. Make sure it’s what the manufacturer recommends.

I have been considering tackling my first paint job on my 54 (after a lot of repairs). Now my confidence is starting to fade. Who new paint was such a science? Ambient temps, substrate temps, length of the air hose, dryers, filters, "oh my". Maybe on second thought, Maaco, here I come.

My dad painted his '33 Plymouth with a brush in the driveway. The paint settled out so smoothly you couldn't see brush marks. People thought he had it professionally done.

I have seen a lot of post where people have painted with a roller or brush and ended up with a good looking paint job. Makes me nervous. I said I never did a paint job, but that wasn't completely true. About 40 years ago I paint a Jeep Cherokee with Rust-Oleum enamel in one of those Wagner electric paint guns. The ones that sounded like the old vibrating football games that moved the men all over the place. It was beautiful. I was so proud. Shiny and smooth. Until 15 minutes later. I put it on way to thick and it started to sag. Looked like a melting candle. Driving buy at 20 feet away it looked fantastic.

I painted another project with epoxy paint in just barely 60° temperature in my garage, maintained it for three days for it to dry. I sanded/compounded it out and it came out great, but you could dent it with your fingernail. It wasn’t until the following spring with temps in the 70’s and several days in the sun that it finally hardened. That was five years ago and that paint still looks great today.

You can do it. Just read up on your product. Ask questions about things you're unsure of. And most of all, understand that, if you do, you won't be the first one to mess something up and you won't be the last. It all can be reversed or corrected. Or just plain lived with. I don't do paint jobs that are worthy of a TV show and millions of dollars. But I'm satisfied with what I do and proud enough to take it out in public without a care of what anyone else thinks. And I've found out, most people will complement you on your work, even if you aren't fishing for those compliments.

I hadn't painted a vehicle since the '60's when I started on my current project. Got epoxy from NAPA (Martin Senour PIP302) and got good results from that (FOLLOWING THE INSTRUCTION SHEET). And PPG ALK-200 finish coat from Jim Carter. It's good for 5' away, and I haven't done any polishing yet. I've painted close to 50F, which is the lowest that the instructions say and it's worked out well.

I say go for it. I'll second what Mark said.

NOOOOOOO!!!!!
Years ago, a friend had a pickup painted by Earl Scheib (a forerunner of Maaco.) It wasn't even a 100 footer, as they even got paint on the tires, failing to mask them off. I don't recall how it lasted, but I suspect it started falling off the truck after a year or so.

What I've learned about epoxy, catalyzed paint/primer, 2 part silicone, fiberglass resin is that ANY contaminant can be what goofs things up for you. In the matter of 2 part silicone it can mean it will never, ever set up no matter how long you wait. Actually it seems to get more watery. And the contaminant can be as simple as a bit of Elmer's glue left in a seam of the mold tray or oil from your fingers, a bit of moisture, lint, dust, nearly anything foreign. Very sensitive stuff. In the case of fiberglass resin some contaminants can prevent hardening for as long as two weeks or more. Except for IMRON or DELTRON, that is. I painted a lot of that and the only way you could prevent it from setting up was to forget the activator. In fact two years ago I found what remained from a quart of PPG DELTRON black left from 1998. It had been stored in the garage the whole time. The fellow at English Color said there was no hardener that would work with it today and that the paint had probably deteriorated beyond using. Curious, I tried some hardener I was using with some catalyzed primer. Uncertain of the strength, I added in to the paint at 1/2 the suggested amount, thinned it and it set up fine overnight. But as Jerry correctly said, you have to remember to clean your gun. Good luck!

When I was a recently returned Southeast Asia vet, and more or less starving to death in California, I interviewed for a manager's position with Color Glow, which was an Earl Scheib type franchise paint shop. Their quick production trick was a bunch of proprietary colors of alkyd enamel that "sorta-kinda" matched most of the more popular OEM color charts, and a baking oven to do a quick cure of the paint. They also didn't use primer or sandpaper. Surface prep consisted of an aggressive scrubdown with household ammonia and a Scotch-brite pad, a quick wash and dry job, and start shooting paint. I didn't bite on that offer, as I found out that there was a pretty rapid turnover of managers at that facility, and even as a hungry man I had some degree of personal integrity!
Jerry

You need length so the air can cool and condense so the trap can get it. Then I am using the desiccant at the gun so its not a contaminant issue. When I touch the areas the IR heater has been on it is much better vs the parts that haven't seen it yet. I may have to wait till June again but I am hoping not.[/quote] OK, I didn't know the extent of filtering/separating.

Use a salvaged air conditioner condenser inline with the compressor with a squirrel cage blower pushing air over it as a 'dryer" before the air enters the storage tank. Those condensers are rated for 300+ PSI- - - - -much higher than most compressors produce.
Jerry

I have had this IR heater all over the bed sides for almost a week. I keep it in an areas until it starts to loose tacky and then move to another area. It is finally starting to come into compliance. I am also keeping my garage at 75 degrees.

Some areas cured quicker than others and it was all shot at the same time. So strange.

What brand of primer are you using? Several years ago we tried to switch away from DP epoxy primer by PPG to the SPI equivalent epoxy primer, which is somewhat cheaper. As soon as the weather changed to cooler temperatures we had the same problem. And it seemed that if the substrate was not warm at the time of painting, it did not help to heat it up later because the SPI epoxy did not want to cure in a reasonable time. We went back to DP epoxy and the problem went away. I could not justify tying up the booth waiting for the primer to dry.

Mark

I use ez cut from evercoat I think? I also sealed it before spraying the epoxy.

I am almost a week into this IR heater and it is about half cured. I may have to give up and just sand out the stuff that sticks to it in the spring for my last reshoot?

Boy, I'd hate to be in your predicament trying to sand off sticky primer. Your sandpaper will load up in a heartbeat and you'll go through a ton of it. If you can get the parts out in the sun, that's a much cheaper infrared heater than what you're using.
Good luck.

If it's still soft, a scraper might work better than sandpaper. A nice sharp hard plastic version would do less damage than a steel version.

Kevin - do you think he may do better, if possible, doing a lacquer thinner wash? I agree sanding soft primer is almost futile and worse than being banished to a Siberian gulag (spelling?) - that is if it’s still soft.

Mark - I would test a small area with lacquer thinner and see if it will cut through the primer and try the plastic scraper MnSmith suggests. This would be a last resort - and may be easier than sanding gummy material. If worst comes to worse, stripper may be an option…not a desirable option… but an option.

Geez, hate to see such a battle. Any chance you can trailer it to a body shop with an IR heated booth?

I like Mark's suggestion of a plastic scraper if it has to come off. It might take something stronger than lacquer thinner to soften it up enough to scrape off. Epoxy is usually pretty resistant to lacquer thinner.
I've been to that gulag before, but with body filler that I didn't get enough hardener in. Fortunately I still have some sandpaper left.

This is not primer. It's an two part epoxy industrial coating that I have color matched.

I guess you're stuck with getting it dried, then. Hope your power is cheap. That infrared heater will suck some KW.

OK, don’t laugh we’re just letting the younger kid imagination run here. If one could assemble a cheap enclosure that would allow for a negative pressure environment, would that hasten the drying process?

RonR

Perhaps a body shop will be willing to put it in a heated booth for a weekend.

mopar guy is on to something. Put something over it (tent-like) to keep the heat in there. Sucking air out of the enclosure would be a plus. Even though your garage is heated, more heat would be better. That'll make that infrared heater even more effective.

Reading this post reminds me of an old car I had . The hood was a different colour so I painted the hood with some rust paint as it was the same colour. I had the car right up to the wood stove to dry the paint almost melted the grill ,shell after waiting 2 hours it was not even close to dry so I had to go .I drive the car home in minus winter temperature and after a 15 minute drive I got home and the hood was dry .go figure

I guess great minds think alike. I covered it cause I wanted to start bodywork on my cab. Once done with a few things I got the ir heater going again. Just checked it after a few hours and it seems to be holding heat through whole thing now.

Looks like the tent trick is working. Staying about 100 degrees under there and things are firming up finally. I really chose the wrong product to learn how to paint.

Glad things are working out. To throw a little cold water on your attempt, I would be concerned about the plastic cover sticking to the tacky paint. Hopefully not.