The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Driveline Newbie steering Q

New to the forum and new to classics
I just bought a 1948 3100. Great cosmetics but needs some mechanical love. Steering is all over the place (like low speed dangerous even) and I suspect it’s the steering box as the wheel moves many inches before under truck components move. If the box is the issue, do the repair kits work? They are 100 bucks. Also, is that a repair that must be done by removing the box and steer shaft?[img]https://share.icloud.com/photos/0aeTwLUx7E1Vv27mR49319FSg[/img]

Tim,

First off, as this is your very 1st post, Welcome to the Stovebolt!

For instructions on how to post your pics, go here Picture Posting Guide. You can also find additional help here in The IT Shortbus.

Others will be along soon to offer their take on your question. Lots of great help coming your way soon!

Once again, Welcome!

Hope to see and hear more from you in the forums.

Dan

First of all, is the truck modified or is it stock?

Don't assume that the problem is your steering gear. (although your description points in that direction)

How old are the tires? Are they radials or bias ply tires? What about the shock absorbers?

Check the entire linkage (pitman arm, idler arm, king pins, tie rods, drag, link, etc. Grease them all and check for slop with the front end off the ground.

Have somebody turn the wheel to full stop in one direction while you're under the truck. Working from the outside in, watch each component where it connects to the previous component to see if there is a delay in movement when the wheel is turned toward the other direction - sort of like train cars as the engine gets rolling.

My steering was wonky when I first got the truck ('50 3100). After installing new rims and tires along with new shock absorbers, the steering issue became a non-issue. I can safely drive the truck at 60mph on the interstate without any weird tracking or weaving.

Don't just start throwing expensive parts at the truck without verifying that they actually need to be replaced.

There are adjustments that sometimes can be made to the steering gear which might help if that's indeed the source of the problem.

All of the above, but quite likely the steering box is dry. It calls for GO90 but it will likely run right out and make a mess.
The consensus favorite product is Corn Head grease. It should be available at a tractor supply and some specialty parts houses.
Fred

If the steering gear is like you describe it will need to be removed & rebuilt. The kit will contain brgs, bushings & seals but if its as bad as you describe there is probably a lot of wear in the gears. If you tear it down & find that it might be better to find a used one to start with. They are not too hard to rebuild.
Like otto says raise the front end & shake it down. There should be no play in any of the joints like the tie rod ends & drag link. Grap the wheels at 12 &6 o'clock & check for play in the king pins & wheel brgs. Grease all the fittings & make sure grease flows through the king pins. Often sticking king pins are the cause of road wonder.
A small amount of play in the tie rod & drag link ends can be adjusted if it still has the old original ends. A lot of play in them will call for replace ment.

George

Thanks guys for the fantastic welcome, picture posting tip and the advice. Truck will be delivered today and I’ll dig in this weekend!

Wow, that's a nice looking truck. If the steering is a bad as you said, the restoration was a skin only job. It looks like it has the original wheels or at least very similar, so the drivetrain is likely stock.

The AD series truck steering gear is pretty stout and not really prone to wear in the gears, as there's very little movement relative to the shaft nut and sector gear. The shaft nut doesn't rotate with the shaft, but is a recirculating ball design, and at worst case, new bushings and bearings, including new balls for the shaft nut should fix it up. They're not hard to rebuild at all. The shop manual (which you should get) has the entire procedure, including adjusting the shaft bearings and sector engagement. It's best done with the steering gear out of the truck, but could probably be done when installed, but will be a bit harder.

Welcome to Stovebolt.

Sharp truck. I see it has dual exhaust. What engine is in it? Like Hansen says. If it has not had the running gear & chassis restored you need to go through the brakes, wheel brgs, & fuel system before anything else. Change all the fluids.

George

The corn head grease mentioned is John Deere # AN102562. About 5 bucks per tube. Fits a regular grease gun.
Same as cotton picker spindle grease. They are both Type 00 grease.
I got mine from a local cotton farmer. They use it by the 55 gal drum. An "empty" drum still had close to a gallon in it.

Thanks for the follow ups guys. I have no issue with removing the steering gear to work on it if indeed it needs a rebuild. I’ll probably be asking for some guidance on how to do that.

I’ll order a manual. Good advice as I’ll need it


I will absolutely plan to go through all mentioned, brakes, fluids etc. I have no history so I want to start fresh and safe as well

Images of the frame suggest it was pulled for the restoration but for sure engine does not appear to be addressed at all. Maybe you all can tell with a few more images exactly which engine is in my truck?

Grease every fitting under there that you can find. If all the steering knuckles and king pins are dried out, you'd be surprised what a difference heavy fresh grease makes.

There are a lot of companies that rebuild steering gears.

Lares did a great job on an F-150 for me.


www.larescorp.com

Not the original engine from what I can tell. Possibly a later 235, as it has bolts around the perimeter of the valve cover rather than two studs and nuts up thru the center, which would indicate a stock 216. It still has the single barrel Rochester carburetor on it.
The transmission and rear end with torque tube look original as does the frame. I see that it has an upgraded master cylinder with vacuum boost, which is probably a good thing (stopping is important.)

Really pretty truck. Exhaust is a little strange with dual at the rear but clearly single further forward. As other have said the steering is fairly robust but there are a lot of places where it can get out of sorts unless the drag link and tie rod ends have been updated. The ball studs tend to get worn out of round such that as you turn the wheel the clearance changes a lot. Mine didn't look to bad until I measured them and found them to be significantly out of round.

Toe-in is important. Book says 3/16 inch but my 69 yr old 3100 didn't like it... I gave the tie rod a quarter turn in, tried it and did it again until it tracked true. Nothing is factory specs on these 70 year old trucks anymore... use specs as a guideline, then adjust +or - until it acts like you want it to.

"Tennessee" is a big place- - - -I'd be happy to try to help get things adjusted so the rig drives more safely until you decide on whether or not to go for a complete rehab of the steering gear. I'm near the Alabama state line a little east of I-65. Other places to inspect would be wheel bearings, king pins and bushings, and tie rod ends. Make a couple more posts so you have access to private messaging, and let's arrange a "meet & greet". I taught steering and suspension work in a couple of vocational schools for 30-something years before I retired in 2011, and I have some pretty good wheel alignment equipment that's looking for something to do.
Jerry

MT -- Welcome to our site! You have gotten quite the red carpet roll out -- Everyone who's posted above have been around our site a long time and have demonstrated that they know what they're talking about. George and Jerry probably have about 2,000 years experience between the two of them (sortta like dog years with those guys ... time happens differently ...). Basically, what I am saying is that you have just gotten some really good advice and direction ...

And if you can somehow meet up with HotRod Lincoln (Jerry) ... it will be well worth it!

Its ok to be new -- you got here as quick as you could. Learn, apply, Share. Its all we ask.



John

I'm boss of this web site ...

(when Peggy is offline ... )

Wow! I have to agree with you John, what a great group you have here.
I'm a member of lots of other forums (firearms, cars, pinball) none have been as welcoming or as helpful on a first post - ever
Thanks to each and every one of you.

I got a surprise call from the guy I bought it from that he was getting it delivered here early - as in tonight.
I'll be hanging around at the gate to my ranch waiting for it around 11pm tonight. Driveway is a bit tight so I will need to make sure his 5th wheel comes in right

Let me take a closer look at it per some of your recommendations and I'll get back to the group with a million more Qs for sure
HotRod (Jerry), I'm straight up I75 out of ATL and right off the Lenoir City exit - and would love some coaching once I get my bearings! Appreciate your very kind offer

We run a horse ranch here off route 70
Youtube of our ranch

Here is the manual for rebuilding gear boxes, yours will very similar to this https://www.flickr.com/photos/advance-design_parts_co/sets/72157632210242370/

My alignment system is portable- - - -all it needs is a smooth, level floor to set it up.
Jerry

Thanks Joe - appreciate that

Truck arrived on a flatbed last night and got it off and in the event barn around 1am - long night but it arrived in good shape
I was able to take a bunch of pics and that drove a BUNCH of questions again - so here goes. Don't worry about too detailed of an answer - I know a single picture is usually not even close to enough for a remote diagnosis
Just looking for thoughts and opinions:

1) Most interesting is the name of the guy that did the restore - he signed the truck underneath! Cool ... but who is he? Anyone connected to him here? I'm not sure of the first name
2) Looks like water pump was replaced? Agree?
3) Without pulling out my multimeter, I noticed last night the headlamps were brighter than I expected from a 6V system, looks like it's been converted to 12V - true?
4) See picture of steering box - looks like a newly rebuilt one was added (LARES ID#149574) but mechanism above the LARES section looks like a seal has gone bad- thoughts?
5) With close up images of engine now here - what is this one the 216 or the 235? Something else?
6) Lots of oil down there, very small drip puddle under engine - any common seals that leak or something you all see in the images to look for?
7) The front leaf springs are basically "flat" no upward curve to speak of - is that normal spec? Is it normal for a 75 year old truck?

#3. Yes 12 volt
#5. 235

The engine could be a 235 or a 261 from 1954 or newer. Earlier 216 or 235 engines will have two large bolts in the top center of the valve cover. There should be a stamped (not cast) letter/number sequence on a machined pad just behind the distributor which can probably be used to identify the original application and year of manufacture of the engine. The red label on the generator identifies it as a 12 volt unit- - - -6V generators have a black ID tag. Keep us posted on the progress of getting acquainted with your new toy!
Jerry

If your steering gear is newly rebuiilt by Lares, then the problems you spoke about previously are probably not due to the steering gear. Look at all those other things listed first.

Your leaf springs are probably fatigued but probably not responsible for your wonky steering.

Another thing to check is your front end alignment. Take up Hotrod's alignment offer.

MT45,

Just a note here as you are still new to the Stovebolt forums and very interested in learning more about your truck.

This particular forum your in is the "Driveline" forum. It's just one of many "Shop" forum categories and the place for all questions related to our trucks "Drivelines".

Your non-driveline questions in the your last post relate to other forums and should be asked in there instead of here.

For example:

Electrical should go to The Electrical Bay

Engine specific things need to go to The Engine Shop

Other non-specific truck questions should go to General Truck Talk

Asking the questions in the on-topic forum will get you better responses and help both you and other members keep the conversation from ping-ponging around.

It's recommend that you try to focus your questions to an individual subject in that post, like the water pump for instance. If you include too many other questions, like what engine do I have, is this the right part etc., on top of asking about the water pump, it gets hard to keep the response from getting all jumbled up.

Hope this helps you understand better how our forums are divided up and that using them in this way will help you get the answers you need.

Dan

PS - Would like to suggest you take a few minutes and read the "headers" of each of the forums in the Stovebolt. Each one has info (or in some cases specific guidelines) that describes what the forum in general is about and/or how to use them. Once you have read through those, I think you will have a better understanding of how the site is set up and functions best.

Great advice Dan and for sure will move those Qs to the correct forum!

Please do not post the same question on more than one location.

Ed

MT45

to your reply about moving questions.

Also, Ed has a valid point. If you ask a question about a specific topic, say in "Engines", it helps a bunch if you don't ask it again in a different post. Sometimes a helpful reply or question asking for more details/information posted to your question may not be understood on your end, or not fully answer the question. The idea then would be to ask further questions or for clarification in the same thread conversation.

Using the KISS principle, one topic question = one topic conversation and answers that directly apply. Asking it again in a different post or forum makes the conversation disjointed and confusing, not to mention a possible time waster for those offering to help.

We will get you trained up and cruising the forums here right quick.

Dan

Most of the trucks came with flat to a very slight curve on the springs, nothing to worry about unless it bottoms out while driving.

Thanks Joe

Now, in sticking with the driveline subject matter … back to that steering
I’ve got lots of homework to do first to get a good diagnosis but thought I’d share this short video
This is how much the steering wheel moves before you encounter resistance and the pitman arm starts to move
Might be normal but seems like a lot of steering wheel travel before anything happens below deck
I’ll be doing a more thorough review this weekend RE: king pins, grease, ends, etc

https://youtube.com/shorts/fREoDDfleYg?feature=share

MT45,

Just a note that your link requires folks to actually download the video to view. Some may not be able to view due to data or device limitations, so maybe not the best way to share.

Not sure if there is a setting on your end that would allow it to be viewed without downloading. Maybe you could check that out???

In the mean time, if you post a couple pics to show the starting position before turning the steering wheel, and then where the wheel is when things below finally start moving, it would be enough to give folks a grasp of what your condition is?

Just a suggestion.

Dan

Yeah, that's a lot. There's an adjustment screw on the passenger side of the steering gear, where the gear lash can be adjusted. The procedure is in the service manual, but if you loosen the locknut and turn the screw in and it gets better, that's the right direction. Just be careful not to get it too tight.

I was able to view the video without downloading. Look a bit farther down the page and click the smaller photo. I then has the typical play button.

I changed link to YouTube. Should work now

Thanks… Joe supplied me with the rebuild and adjustment instructions. Ill see how much it improves the play …

One precaution before trying to adjust the sector preload (the adjustment in the photo). Some linkage should be disconnected, usually one end or the other of the drag link, so you'll be able to feel the "high point" as you turn the steering wheel through center. For a rough guesstimate, at least jack up the front wheels and put the axle on stands so there's no contact between the tires and the ground.
Jerry

Check for play in the tie rod ends and the drag link ends. They are adjustable. Lucas S Drake may not have known the correct procedure to adjust them. The instructions are spelled out nicely in the Chevrolet Truck Repair manual. You need one of those if you haven't bought one yet.
I would not touch the obviously recently rebuilt steering box whatsoever yet. It is not likely the problem, but the other steering components are easier to adjust and more likely the problem.

If the truck is running the original type drag link and tie rod ends, there's a specific adjustment procedure to eliminate any slack in those items. It requires a special socket (known as a "drag link socket "- - - -how 'bout that?) It resembles a big screwdriver blade with a 1/2" square drive. Remove the cotter pin at the end of the assembly, tighten the threaded plug as far as it can go against the spring, and then back off to the nearest cotter pin hole that aligns with the slot. If the ends haven't been adjusted recently, a Propane torch is your friend for getting the plug unstuck! Wear safety goggles and gloves- - - -hot grease can splatter!

www.ebay.com/itm/274533037536?

Jerry

What Jerry said about taking up play in the drag link and tie rod ends, but you also need to be sure the balls on the pitman arm and steering arms aren't worn excessively. WICruiser pointed that out earlier in the thread. If they are worn oval, and you adjust them so the spring is too compressed in the straight ahead position, it'll be totally compressed as you turn the wheels and the steering will bind up. Here's a pic of one that had to be replaced.