The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop Any Reason not to swap a Rochester for Carter?

My Rochester is in need of a rebuild, but I have decided to replace it instead.
(By the time get the kit and parts cleaner bucket, it's most the same for a professional rebuilt!)

I was looking at remanufactured/rebuilt ones, and I've seen a lot of chatter that it's better to go with a Carter YF2100S.

Not worried about numbers matching, would like to stay kind of original/stock, but not to the point where I want to give up reliability/drivability.

What are the Pros & Cons of going with the Carter?

Either carb is a good carb. Both field tested by the millions. If you are saying that a $40 bucket of cleaner and a kit is the same price as a local builder would charge, have it rebuilt. You won't buy a rebuilt carb for that. The consensus on Carter vs Rochester is the same as any other issue. Now throw in Holley. Some would say that the carb that came on the motor from the factory is the best carb.
If you don't have a lot of knowledge or experience and you start playing "hot rod guy" or wanting to change because someone says to change, that's when you and your motor get all goofed up.

You must have experience and knowledge because you have decided that the carb "needs rebuilt" without asking any questions or explaining why and let the members advise/suggest what's wrong with whatever the issue is. Could be fuel, electrical, timing, vacuum or mechanical.......and you didn't give year, make, model, mods.

Okay than...

1955, 3100, 235, 3 Speed, Stock

Starts right up with just a little choke.

Runs well at low speeds.

Stumbles and dies at highway speeds, difficult to restart.

Truck sat for a number of years.

I have replaced the:
Plugs
Coil
Consider
Cap
Rotor
Fuel Pump
Fuel Filters - One before the pump; one after the pump, just before the carb
Fuel lines

When running, you can see fuel passing through both filters.

Kits seem to be running about 150, so with bucket $200.

Can't find a YF!

Found a rebuilt Rochester, $329.

The price you've given for a Rochester B rebuild kit is very high compared to what's I've found ( all less than $50 online ) If your Rochester is not leaking fuel between the air horn and the float bowl then you've got a keeper. I suggest you contact Carbking at The Carburetor Shop , https://www.thecarburetorshop.com/ , and ask about a rebuild kit . (573) 392-7378 (9-4 Mon-Tues central time) .

Thanks!

[img]https://www.stovebolt.com/ubbthread...C7945EA0-98FE-40F6-86A6-CDE2E75A7AC5.png[/img][img]https://www.stovebolt.com/ubbthread...C7945EA0-98FE-40F6-86A6-CDE2E75A7AC5.png[/img]Few hours left on a Carter 2100 s in the box rebuilt but older rebuild I suspect

What is the difference between a 2100S and a 2101S? Is it the automatic choke?

Should I pull the trigger????

A new carb is up to you. If it solves the issue I read in recent post, then it's all good.

The price you quote for a kit is way off. Kits are $30-$35. The cleaner is $39.95 not $50. I didn't read what carb but you say stock motor in another post. I read your recent post where Hot Rod Jerry and 52Carl where advising. Two guys who know what they are doing. Others were helping also. What I noticed is you did not respond/follow up to tests they advised. Fuel pump delivery at pump outlet into a bottle, looking down carb at next on-road failure, tank gravity flow (debris test) float check....these are the tests always used.
Also, as partially mentioned in that post:
1. Those filters you keep talking about. Filters do restrict flow even when clean, You should only have one on the inlet side of pump. Not glass, use the enclosed tin type.
2. Try running with gas cap off in case it is creating a vacuum lock after driving awhile.
3. I would suggest, that after all this running of motor and it starts and runs and even runs good sometimes at high speed, that the carb is clean. You don't need to dunk it. You can take apart and spray some jet holes and air blow it out if you want. Set float again carefully.
4. It is possible to have two issues at once and as you said establishing a baseline is one idea sometimes. It does not always bypass testing and can burn you if you added a bad new component from off shore.... or even so called USA made.
5. Do a test run with air filter removed.
6. Some test are just to gain a change in the issue, kind of like the replacement/baseline method. Troubleshooting is Isolating/identifying a component by test, bypass or replacement.
7. Wait for carbking to respond or PM.

To everyone within satellite communication distance: Don't use a replaceable cartridge fuel filter. Use a metal, not plastic, sealed filter like WIX 30031 30032 30033. They can't leak or suck air. Seeing the gas inside does not prove anything.

NOS carb..NO! the "O" stands for OLD. Old rubber on the accelerator pump, old needle seals, old gaskets, unknown climate storage, as in: corrosion inside.
EBAY carb..NO! especially from a guy who can't spell Chevrolet and it will still need a kit and maybe more.

Bartamos is correct carter we’re a aftermarket replacement for chev six and the one I showed is a auto choke so you would have to either set up a heat box for it to work correct or get a adapter to make it work with the Manuel choke cable about 20 .Then I would think a kit as even as it sits in the box I would guess it would have been in there since the latest from the mid 70;s .they show up and if you look online you will see the various prices ,I picked one up last year can’t remember what I paid but it was around 50.00 but it was a chance and was not in a box was greasy ect .still have not tried it yet but hopefully this spring .

Quote Kilroy55 "What are the Pros & Cons of going with the Carter?" End Quote

Cons: it would points in a point judging car show

Pros: everything else (well, maybe price, if you are used to Rochester type B prices).

Jon

Bartamos, I'll do the tests you suggested tomorrow.

I had looked in only one place for the carb kit and the bucket. Just looked again a couple more places, looks like together they're under 100.

Thanks!

OK good, but the tests were first mentioned by others. Disconnect coil at center tower and crank. Pump outlet line into a bottle for about 10 sec to see a good strong pulse of gas starting to fill bottle. Report all your finding re: tests. Gas cap, one filter, tank debris, what suits ....... A rochester 1 bbl is not hard to build. Mikes carburetors has a vid.

50/50 Simple-Green and water + old crockpot set on low heat for 20-30 minutes works really good for cleaning carb. No real need for nasty chemical cleans. I
hunt e-bay for NOS carb kits just for the hardware, but they have to be from the carb manufacturer, ACDelco or Carter, aftermarket kits are a gamble.

Haven't been able to get work on the truck lately.

I have some time next week, planning on doing fuel flow check and replacing the rear wheel cylinders and brake hoses.

I attempted to rebuild mine because it was leaking pretty bad. After the rebuild it was still leaking. It developed a warp. There is a tech procedure on here about how to correct the warp and repair the carburetor but I did not want to invest the time into something I was not sure would be successful. I decided to purchase one professionally rebuilt. It was more money than I wanted to spend but I could not be happier with the result. BFIC Carbsonly in California. Guy was easy to work with. He had one in stock specifically for my 54 3100 235. If he does not have one available he can rebuild yours.

www.carbsonly.com/

About 5 years ago I posted a lot about repairing the warped body of a Rochester B or BC (or any of the other B series...they all are made using the same 4 screw scheme). It isn't a tech tip because that section is not being updated, but I designed this so that anyone can do this simply using only your gas grill and here it is:

https://tinyurl.com/3sx394s3

To hark back to the original question, there is only 1 reason I would keep a Rochester instead of a Carter YF...and the reason would be that I could not find a Carter I could afford. For one important thing the Carter will not have the Rochester power circuit. This may have worked back when we had real gasoline. Since we got unleaded (and ethanol laced unleaded is MUCH WORSE) all bets are off. Now that gas will cause the power piston to stick fast in the bore and that will make the thing run horribly rich. Plus (and this is another given) virtually every Rochester B you find will have been run through some "rebuilder's operation" and that will have violated it completely. All springs, the power piston, etc will have been mixed up with many others. It matters less if this happens to a Carter as long as the model types are kept in the same group.

Thanks for the info.

It's not dirty looking on the outside, but it does leak.

I created a “Sticky Thread” for Jon G’s “Straightening a Rochester B & BC Carburetor” while the “Tech Tips” are on hold. It’s located on the top of the” Engine Forum”. Here is a [LINK]

I got tired of trying to locate it when recommending it to fellow ‘bolters.

My brother, a master mechanic for 35 plus years, determined that the carb has issues. I put a rebuild kit in it, thought maybe I didn't do it correctly, he was pretty confident that it was anything I did, (that's a relief!).

The options I'm looking at now are:

A. Send it of to be remanufactured through NAPA/Balkamp.
Cost: $225

B. Found a Offy twin 1 barrel carb manifold with two Carter YFs (needing to rebuilt).
Cost: $430. (Manifold $380, Carb kits $50)

My plan is to make it a circa 1960s mild hop up, just what I guy might have done to a 5+ year old truck.
Headers/Dual exhaust
Passenger car 4 speed, I hate the 3 on the tree and don't need a granny gear!
Period looking Tach (Sun/Moon) and gauges.
Somethings will be updated just because.
High flow radiator and fan.

I'm leaning towards the Offy choice.

Thoughts, comments and recommendations.

Dual carbs on a stovebolt are either "one too many" or "one not enough". They're mostly eye candy to impress people who look under the hood and don't realize what a mistake the engine builder made. Unless you install two very low CFM carburetors you'll be running lean enough to cause lots of backfires, and maybe a fire under the hood caused by backfiring and collapsing the carb floats, followed by massive flooding. There might be a limited reason for dual exhausts, but at least do the old school modification of splitting the stock manifold instead of eliminating the heat riser and ruining the performance of the engine during cold weather operation and/or warmup.

Making "improvements" to the intake and exhaust system on a stovebolt (or any other) engine without also doing internal engine modifications such as installing bigger intake and exhaust valves, porting and polishing the cylinder head, installing a radical camshaft profile, increasing the engine displacement, and compression ratio is like joining two log chains with a paper clip. All you do is waste a lot of time and money, and end up with an engine that loses power, or at least doesn't increase it nearly as much as you are hoping to do. At one time, I had a couple of hundred dyno run records filed away to support that idea, ones I had complied in around 20 years of engine building and dyno testing in a big public high school auto shop in Nashville Tennessee. My advanced level students were participating in a program sponsored by a few racing team owners at the Nashville Fairgrounds 5/8 mile oval track. They provided the funding, and I trained students to build and dyno tune NASCAR specification short track engines.

As for the transmission question, any 4 speed you get will have a 1:1 fourth gear. Some may have a better mix of gear ratios leading up to the 1:1 final gear (and some may be worse) but since you already have the open driveshaft rear end, I'd consider a T5 (five speed) transmission. Any four speed will not improve anything but the rpm drop between shifts and it will give you a synchronized 1st gear. You will still have the same top speed and your engine will still be turning over at the exact same rpms as it will with the 3 speed. Good luck!

While looking at Carters on Ebay, can't help but notice the dozens of Rochester 'copies' averaging about $200 (and one even as low as $150!)

I'm still holding out for a Carter myself, but can't help but think they can't be any worse than the 'real thing' Rochester and wonder if they might be worth a punt for some.

Before I knew better, I bought one of those new copies of an Autolite carb for my '66 Mustang.

Big mistake! I should have rebuilt the original carb. The new one is typical Chinees garbage. Unfortunately the original carb was part of the deal as a "core".

Don't buy a fake Rochester. If you can't find a real Carter to rebuild, rebuild an original Rochester.

It's difficult to imagine anything less likely to perform well than a worn out original Rochester, but one of the "clones" might qualify for that "dishonorable mention". Very few things made in an offshore sweatshop by what's virtually slave labor qualify for any description other than "bad" or "worse"- - - - - -fuel pumps, or ignition condensers, for a couple of examples.
Jerry

Well, when those first appeared on eBay they were about $50~$60 each and then the price went up to more like $80 to $90. But maybe they've refined and improved them. The first ones had castings that were different colors, they had some screws which had not been tightened, washers that were different (some flat, some lock washers), and the auto choke mechanism had 3 (yes, count them, three) vacuum inlets. You can see below. Why? Anybody's guess. My guess is they were being sand-cast in somebody's garage. Can't be worse than the "real thing"? I don't know if I'd go that far. Good luck!

Obviously I can't speak for the quality (or lack) in these Rochester Clones - I wouldn't necessary tar all with the same brush however, but of course the lottery is in knowing what are actually any good vs rubbish.
I will say I have bought multiple $25 average carburetors for various small engines, the most recent of which were a Generator and a Pressure Washer I inherited with my house that I purchased. Previous owner too lazy to junk them and just left me to deal with them. After swapping out the carbs, (these are not worth the effort of rebuilding) however they BOTH started on very first pull and have run strong in the last year with no issues.
At least with Amazon you generally can have buyer feedback on the actual item to go on, not so much Ebay of course.
But it's easy to take a $25 'risk' vs a $200 one

Yes, I've used some of those $20 small engine carbs. They work fine for mowers.

The Carb I bought was also $200. I should have spent the $300 to have it rebuilt. It was before I got the AD truck so I wasn't aware of the Chinese carb problems or Jon H's Carburetor Shop and kits, etc.

Anyway, among other things, the float filled with gasoline in less than a year.

I'm sure Jon will be along sooner or later to tell us his experiences with the knockoff carbs. As he's mentioned before, none of them are good.