The Stovebolt Site Forums The Parking Lot Big Bolts 64 C60 diesel conversion

Hello,
with gas goin up like crazy again I'm thinkin about a small diesel for my C60, I'd like to find one of them onan/cummins diesels that ups uses,but that ain't gonna happen so I'm open to suggestions... perkins? 6.2/6.5 GM? maybe Isuzu? I need a vaccum pump big enough to power the hydrovac and would like to keep the NP 540 trans if possible. I'm not lookin for more power or speed than the old 292, just better mileage and the challenge of doing something different.

I had a 78 GMC 6500 with a 4-53T detroit diesel in it. Was the 4-53 offered in your 64?

Vaccum pump is no problem, I have a belt driven one if you would like it.

Or you could switch to a hydrobooster.

You may find an onan/cummins if you ask around here, I bet you will find someone with a few...

If you only want to improve on gas milage than you may want to think again on the conversion. Not that a diesel can't get better gas milage, but you are probably going to spend lots more money and time doing the conversion than the cost of the extra fuel you will burn for the rest of the time you have the truck if you leave it gas.

That's not to say don't switch, but you may want to have a few more reasons to do it so you won't be dissapointed in the money you actually loose when it is all over.

your right it ain't cost effective for sure,but I don't plan on sinking a fortune in it either. If I sell it it won't bring near what I've got in it ,then I have to buy one to replace it and so forth...so I'm inclined to spend the money and build it anyway The cheapest way i've found so far is a non turbo 6.5 not much work to bolt up but there are issues with the clutch pedal cross shaft and the starter that I ain't figured out yet. A belt driven vaccum pump and a tank should run the hydrovac I would have to find a bigger radiator and make a shroud. I could go on and on but I'm still looking for suggestions and ideas at this point....Thanks

I don't think the cummins 4 will push it and they are getting expensive. That's the route I am going in my 53 one ton.

If you have 39 inches in the engine bay you can use a cummins 5.9 out of a dodge truck with an SAE 3 adapter.

Cheapest way is gonna be a 6.2 or 6.5 GM diesel.

keeping the NP540 won't be a problem with any diesel.

Perkins might be a cheap way to do it, but the flywheel and clutch won't be cheap.

Again, I refer someone to Brian at adelmans . No affiliation, just a satisfied customer. He can probably hook you up with a complete 4-53T at a decent price.

I've heard of folks swapping in engines out of Thermo king refrigeration units but as they used a variety of engines thru the years couldn't recommend one in particular. They would be4 cylinder diesels.

Are you talking about the Cummins 4BT?

That's a nice engine but they are a little anemic in the power dept....(and they are not cheep!) I see them on EBAY all the time bolted up to a GM TH-350/400 trans etc. Another choice might be a Detroit Diesel Allison 4-53T as Grigg suggested. You can easily get more than 170hp out of one. (They are heavy and noisy though......of course, not to us guys that like the 2 stroke diesels, that's not noise!!)

If you want to consider a 6.5L engine find one from a 1993 or earlier truck and it will have a mechanical injection pump. Otherwise you'll need to change out the injection pump on anything newer (1994 and later was electronic). The 6.5L engine will probably be the easiest to install because you're staying "GM".

You can easily get 200+ hp from a 6.5L (turbo) engine and built right you can get 300+hp with intercooling, a big radiator and low compression pistons (bring money for that!) http://www.peninsulardiesel.com/400tai/400tai.htm

Your most fuel efficient choice will probably be a Cummins 6BT (Dodge trucks) turning around 1600-1800 at highway speeds. You might have to buy a wrecked Dodge truck for that and then part it out. Check the wrecking yards for them....they're everywhere.....but you'll probably pay anywhere from $1800-2500 for one with 100,000 miles or so on it.

I am considering a 4-53T for my 1955 Ford F-600 since I have a possible source for one. You really have to have access to a pretty high geared rear axle since you want a lot less than 2000 rpm at say 60-70mph on the highway. Diesels really shine MPG-wise when they turn slow.

Up here in the NW gasoline now is around $2.40/gal and diesel is anywhere from about $2.60-2.90/gal which kills *some* of the efficiency advantage.
http://www.flyingj.com/fuel/gasoline_CF.cfm?state=WA (you can check all over the country on this site!)

(It's still good for my TDI Jetta though....It gets 48mpg!! )


Regards,


Rick

Welcome HT32BSX115

Cummins 4 bts are not cheap, but are capable of plenty of power. Again, not cheap. With a C60, I think there is room for a cummins 6bt.

a 4bt was used in place of 292s in p30 trucks, so it is a good alternative is you don't need to run 70+ mph

Yes I agree..not cheap. There's usually 2 or 3 of them on EBAY at any given time. It might be easier to find a 6BT since most wrecking yards have a couple of them on the shelf at any given time.

I do think that most people would not be happy with the power/acceleration of a 4BT in a medium duty.....I have talked to people that thought the 4BT was ok in a 1/2 ton.

The 6BT....well that would be another matter. I think that would be a great "fit" in a medium duty truck! But they are even less "cheap" than the 4BT!

I have even considered putting the 6.5L V-8 in my '55 F-600 (that would cause the "Ford-ites" to grumble!) There's nothing wrong with a properly built 6.5.....as long as it's got mechanical injection that is! It appears that I'll have problems with the left exhaust manifold hitting the steering box though....I need to stick with an inline engine.

Regards,

Rick

I'm doing a 4bt swap on a 53 1 ton and wish I could do a 6bt swap as they are much cheaper. Ebay is not where you get 4bts unless you want to pay all the money.

You haven't been around long, not sure if you have been lurking, you'll find most people here are happy with the power/acceleration of a 235 in a medium duty truck.

The stock 4bt I am using is rated 120 hp meaning 300+ ft lbs of torque off idle. Much more than the 235 is capable of in my 39 1.5 ton. Add an intercooler, turn up the pump and a holset turbo will put it around 170 hp with 200 hp and 400 ft lbs not out of the question. If you mosey over to colorado k5 or the turbo diesel register they are pumping them up over 250 hp and 450 ft lbs for rock crawling.

Getting the rpms where they should be is another issue. Gonna start with an eaton 4.10 rear. Haven't decided to stay with a granny 4, torque splitter plus auxiliary or go automatic with overdrive.

There's been lots of diesel discussion here lately with Grigg leading the way on actually getting one completed with a 4-53T.

I can think of plenty wrong with a 6.2 or 6.5 if money isn't an object. But I can't think of a better diesel for the money if you have room for a v8 and not a straight 6.

It sounds like that little 4BT is more powerful than I thought!

I am familiar with the normally asperated models that you might find in a skid-steer etc....

The 6.5 is not a bad engine per se' I have one with about 150,000 miles on it and other than the injection system it's been trouble free. It's not my first choice in diesels though!

I wouldn't have thought a 235 would have much power. My F-600 came originally with a 223 cu-in 6. They were VERY anemic. I do know that the GM 235 /230/250/292 engines were probably the best inline sixes ever produced by anyone!


I like the 4-53T. I spoke with Grigg about his and it looks like he's going to have a really nice set up when it's done!

Did I read right? You said below that the 6BT is cheaper than the 4BT? I thought the 4BT's would be cheaper. Aren't the ones on EBAY around $2500 or so? I suppose the 6BT's are more available since Dodge has been using them since about 1989


Anyway it sounds like your's will be a great set up! I did not know that you could safely get over about 150hp out of a 4BT.

I would bet with the right gearing you could get 25+ mpg in a 3/4 or 1ton pickup with one.

Just saw 3 of the 6BT engines on ebay with Buy It Now prices of around 4,200-4,500,and one 4BT w/T-400,for 2,995.
Speed

you must search carefully and watch core charges. its best to search for mechanical 5.9 liter engines. they were used in a bunch of places, including military vehicles and the dodge setup isn't necessarily the cheapest. Again for those that seem to have missed the previous post, contact Brian at adelmans.

if you are buying cummins on ebay, you are paying too much. A buy it now on ebay is what someone wants, not necessarily what they sell for. That being said, they are a few ebay vendors that appear to have cornered the market on the elusive GM 4 speed and new process 5 speed ovedrive 4 bts, one vendor occasionally has a 4bt with a f*rd granny 4 speed

Check with your local frito lay service manager for your best deal. He will most likely have an individual that buys every bad motor and truck. If you are real nice sometimes you can get one at the brother in law price. Also your local laundry service and bread trucks (later models will have a 6bt with allison behind them). I am partial to grumman vans, freightliners will usually have f*rd friendly components

My local truck/pickup wrecking yard had 2 6BT's recently for $1995 and $2295 so 4.3in84toy is right.....EBAY is probably not the place to get one!

Cheers,

Rick

Another source of 6BT Cummins engines is from 1987-1996 BlueBird buses and Oshkosh-framed buses and motor coaches/motor homes. There was a running BB bus (state gov't surplus DOC) sold here recently for only $1,900 and drive it home! Something like that, you could get rid of the bus body and put your cab on the later chassis/running gear!