The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop First Start after ~10 years

My Poor 51 3100 has been sitting outside in the back yard and not run for at least 10 years!
Time has come to resurrect her
Of course first off fresh Oil & filter - have to say the oil looked not horrible at all - Synthetic really does hold up well.
I put a little ATF down through the plug wells, just for some insurance, and first turned the engine over by the fan - absolutely free, no problems.
Then with Plugs still out, turned on the key & pressed the starter pedal - absolutely smooth, no worries there at all. Cranked over a number of 10 sec bursts, just to get the oil moving through the system.
Pressed on - ready for the next big step!
My biggest concern was the gas (for good reason given the time) but thought we'd see how it went. It had a bottle of K100 in the tank when it was last run (I have another qt arriving tomorrow which I'll add along with maybe some more fresh gas)
Don't know if anyone has used that - it is REALLY great stuff - will put any water into the solution to where it will be combusted along with the fuel. But recognize they say will stabilize for 2 years - this has been 10!!!

I did a test with that about 15 years ago in my old lawn tractor where these was significant water in the tank.
Anyway - put plugs back in and tried cranking.
Again cranked over really strongly, but no sign of a cough let alone fire.
Back to basics, pulled a plug - first off, it was wet, so at least 'something' was getting into the cylinders
But no spark (actually not what I expected) Tried just opening the points and could not get spark there.
And with them 'closed' I was getting 12V* across them, so there was no connectivity between them.
*I should add that this is a 12V system now, with an alternator - retained the original coil with a resistor in series (at some point I really need to just get a 12V coil)
Took some emery and cleaned up the contact breaker contacts - re-checked the gap, miraculously was still good at 0.018
Turned on ignition and now I could manually open the breaker and get spark across them -VERY much encouraged by that.
I dumped the contents of the Fuel Filter bowl - looked like gas, no sign of any water droplets (it was full incidentally, before I even started cranking it - probably just sitting there as when left all those years before - suggests everything was pretty tight!)
Now tried cranking again - no throttle and no choke** .........
As I was cranking, I wouldn't say I could necessarily feel the point where it started firing, but it seemed to be going slightly faster and realized the motor was catching - released the starter and there it was - idling absolutely sweetly, no throttle or choke!!
I was actually pretty stunned - but delighted.
I just let it run for a while like that, sounded perfect no missing or stumbling but it die out.
However re-started again just as nicely.

Here's where I am now:
So have it basically running - but it will not take throttle at all - try to feed it in super slowly but it just wants to die; if I release it, it idles sweetly again.
I haven't had a chance to investigate further, but expect it is now fuel related - whether that be the carb or the fuel itself.
I mentioned the choke earlier - The knob pulled right out and the cable is obviously detached - now I'm assuming with the cable detached it simply won't close the choke as opposed to it closing on its own?
Of course I do need to check to make sure it is open - and need to pull the air filter too, to be sure nothing has tried to build a nest in there.
The fuel, itself will be hard to drain & dispose of (but will try to get at least some off the bottom of the tank and look for water - but fact it runs, even though just idle at least suggests there is combustible fuel getting through - so will try more K100 and add some fresh gas just to improve it somewhat
If not choke or air filter I should probably pull the carb and clean that up.

So what else should I put on my list for tomorrow?

p.s. I did a disc brake conversion back then - when rolling it down to the garage, pedal was still hard and stopped it! Far cry from moving at speed yet, but I was please to feel that hard pedal, did not even need to be pumped up to pressure. Must have done something right there too!

First, I would drain that tank and blow out the fuel lines. If you still have the tank in the cab, and the original outlet valve, it’s easy to do. Crawl under the cab and you will see a valve and an 1/8” pipe plug that removes. Close the valve (disclaimer, if it’s not frozen), remove the pipe plug, reopen the valve and drain.

I would then open the carb and clean it out. Good luck!

The won’t accelerate above idle can be both fuel and spark related. Since you have addressed the ignition points the other thing to check is the vacuum advance. It must be free to move and it must move when accelerating. After setting 10 years the Carburetor is going to need a refresh. The accelerator pump needs replacing and all the holes, nooks and crannies must be clean. My guess, is going to be a Carburetor issue. Get it squeaky clean and all will be good.

Re the ignition timing, it won't take ANY throttle at all so don't believe it to be the advance
And after sleeping on it, I think it has to be a Fuel delivery issue - haven't worked on carb system in so long you forget things!
It can't be an air issue, it's just not getting enough gas - so I think your your counsel re stripping/cleaning the carb is sound.

@Phak1 - great tip on how to drain the tank, and especially the pic!
I can't see how I can drain the tank completely though, (how do you get rid of old gas????) but certainly just getting the bottom off would be good - if there's any water, that is where it will be - and even a small sample it will be easy to see and I can just eliminate at least the very bottom of the tank

Here is what happened with my lawn tractor about 10 years or so back:

I can validate that in my own testing, Phase Separation on my Garden Tractor was indeed reversed by adding K100.
(It was actually an extreme case and I drained off some of the water originally)

Here you can see visibly perfect example of the phase separated water/alcohol and gasoline that I removed from my tractor.

The first image is what came right off the bottom of the tank - it looks like a huge % but recognize that is all from the bottom, so you would expect it to be all water;
i.e. important to note this is not representative of the entire tank ratio, just the very bottom. Water/ethanol is heavier than gas so all sits at the very bottom
the second image is after that initial drain and you can see that most of it was already gone.
Following that initial run-off, the K100 was used to blend the rest.
You also have to recognize that when you remove the water/ethanol you are reducing the octane level considerably (because you are removing all the alcohol from the gas)
- but by adding the K100 it will restore some of that octane level.
It worked brilliantly on my tractor, drained off that water content from the bottom till I only had a little water showing - then added the K100 and topped off with fresh gas. It started and ran perfectly.

gas separation 1

gas separation 2

I'll use similar technique to drain off the bottom content of the Chevy tank and both see how it looks and eliminate any separated water I see (note that it had a bottle of K100 in it, so will be interesting to see how much effect that had after all these years
And then treat what's left in there and see what happens

But will strip and clean the carb regardless.

I siphon off the top, so I don get the water or junk, the send it thru a filter and mix it one part to five parts with new gas, then burn it in my lawn mower. That at least reduces the amount I need to get rid of, in a environmentally friendly way of course!

The above procedure sounds like a surefire way to lock up some valve guides and bend some pushrods, as some of our fellow bolters have discovered repeatedly. It doesn't happen on the initial startup. Once the gum and varnish from the tank gets into the guides, it locks the valves pretty solid and the engine trashes itself on a subsequent start. Good luck!
Jerry

You should only clean breaker points with a diamond file, never with emery cloth.

I will be replacing them anyway, just wanted to eliminate the problem

I would consider disconnecting the fuel line at the tank and either hook up an auxiliary tank or possibly running a line from the fuel pump to a tank or can sitting on the ground. Then you're at least running fresh gas into it. As Jerry mentioned, running that old varnish into your engine is not a good idea. I had that happen with my F-350 which had also sat for about 10 years when I got it. Ran like a Swiss watch the first time I started it. A couple weeks later I started it again and it sounded like a John Deere tractor! Didn't bend any push rods, but a couple of the valves were stuck pretty good. Took some doing to get them freed up.

Look like my County accepts gasoline at their hazardous waste facility - it's free too!
So no brainer then, it's going there.

Lol. Ca thinks everything is hazardous. Sounds like you got free weed killer to me. But thats just me.

One of the not so terrible side effects of a 2-month-long case of Covid is that there's about 25 pounds less of my "hazardous waist" these days. However I cannot recommend that as a weight loss program!
Jerry

Thanks for the advice.
I did go ahead and drain the gas tank - in the process, the flexible fuel line between the manual gas valve and the hard line disintegrated - probably a good thing it happened really, when I could see it, although created a mad scramble to get a new one!
Continued to drain the tank completely and managed to dispose of the old gas at my City Hazardous Waste center for no charge.
I had an inline filter right before the carb, so replaced that at same time and cleaned out the carburetor (which per the manual appears not to be the original, which should be the GM Model 'B' on a 51, but is in fact a Carter Downdraft)
Got the Fuel Line this morning, bolted it in and cranked her up - took a fair bit of cranking till the gas got all the way up there, but eventually kicked in - and NOW REVS FREELY!
Then onto the next problem - the radiator was leaking - quite profusely! I'll look at a permanent repair after the move, but a bottle of K-Seal took care of it - after running for about 15 mins, the radiator was tight!
Mini 'road' test tomorrow (just down the street and back) - I need to be able to get it on the Transporter so ideally it will move and stop appropriately!
The brake pedal is still solid and the brakes grabbed when just pushing it down slight incline (although the front rotors are covered in surface rust) so I think it will be OK
And I did get the clutch to lift and engaged first gear, and while holding the brake as I was easing out the clutch, it clearly loaded up although I stopped short of actually fully engaging the clutch; but I believe it will actually move on its own steam (sic)
On to Tomorrow!

Good show! You will find that a tired Carter carburetor is several steps of improvement over a brand new Rochester B. Someone did you a huge favor by swapping carbs sometime in the past. "The ABC's of carburetion- - - -Always Buy Carter!" That was Carter's slogan back in the late 1940's and early 50's!

Just draining the gas tank might not be sufficient. When you add fresh gas, it's going to dissolve the gummy residue that's left, and it will end up in the valve guides. Either remove the tank and have it professionally cleaned, or replace it. My tank-cleaning method involves putting a couple of shovels full of fine gravel into it, strapping it to a rear wheel of my tractor and mowing a few acres of pasture. The only tricky part is getting the gravel back out!
Jerry

Thank you!, Jerry
Things were initially looking good with truck sitting in garage.
My front driveways is a steep downhill slope and I didn't want to 'test' that right off the bat
But I have a passthrough door to the back yard and backed it out; initially looking ok and then it cut out and it was very hard to restart; some starter fluid right in the carb, proved it seemed to be fuel-starved
Disconnected the fuel line at the Carb and cranked; it was flowing but weak
Took top off the carb and there was only a low level of fuel in the float chamber
Moved back a stage to the pump inlet;
Even though the bowl was full, nothing was running out of the line;
Moved back to the Manual Valve again;
Removed the flex line and barely getting a drip;
I scratched around inside the Valve outlet fitting and suddenly was pouring out!
Got the line reconnected and felt more confident about now getting enough gas.
Sure enough it started, (after lengthy crank again to get the fuel to the carb) but after a brief minute fuel was pouring out of the carb - clearly float needle not shutting it off
Pulled top of carb again, checked the float height (maybe slightly tall, but really think float just getting hung up
Anyway, now was running really well

Sounds like you have rust particles or other junk in your gas tank. You're likely to continue having problems until you clean out the tank as suggested. Even worse, you're going to be driving down the road and it's going to die on you. Trust me as I speak from personal experience. The problem that confounded me the most was that the fuel pump worked intermittently because rust particles would get stuck in the one-way valve, allowing the fuel to flow backwards and not go up to the carb.

I hear you Greg - my current goal is not 'driving down the road' - just down my driveway and on to the transporter
I believe I can now achieve that