The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop Rochester vs. Carter

I am replacing the carburetor on my 1954 3100 235. I tried rebuilding my current Rochester but it must have a crack or something. Gas pours out of it. Is one better than the other. Carter vs. Rochester? Chevy of the 40's also have new replacement carburetor.

Their Description:
This model is made especially for Chevy 6 cyl engines from 1937-1967. This high quality replacement carburetor bolts right on the manifold; has the normal Chevy linkage, pre-jetted, and are all manual choke models. It will fit either the 216 or 235 engines without modifications,

Carter 2100s manual choke or 2101s automatic choke.
The Rochester replacement you have found is not made in the USA and is reportedly of poor quality.

I'm waiting impatiently for Jerry to chime in with his "ABC's of Carburation - Always Buy Carter" thing.

Happily, my engine came to me with a Carter carb on it.

Carbking posted a thing on Rochester carbs how the body gets warped and how to correct it. Maybe that's what's up with yours.
[on edit] It was JonG that posted the deal on straightening carb bodies. The "other" Jon. Here's the thread: Link

That one that Chevy's of the 40's sells LOOKS like a Carter, but ???

The Rochester's were known for warping, causing leaks. Every Rochester I've ever had or seen had stains all over it from leaks. I've had really good luck with a Zenith 228 carb from a 270 GMC that I use on my 261. But if I had a 216 or 235, I would have a Carter 2100. Ask Jerry how many warranty claims GM had back in the 50's due to the Rochester carbs.

It will fit either the 216 or 235 engines without modifications

The 216 and early 235 have a different flange bolt pattern than the later 235 and 261, so the carburetor cannot fit both. Either they don't know this, or are deceptive.

Yes, Jerry advised me against one of the Rochester rebuilds so I tried doing it myself. Now that I have no choice I been searching for a Carter 2100 but after an hour on google no luck. Any place I find a reference is out of stock or they are on ebay list as a good core for a rebuild. I want to take it out of the box and bolt it on.

You have asked for a direct comparison between angel food cake and horse poop---where to begin?

I did a search and got this immediately.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/324803273984
rebuild yourself or exchange above for:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/185069865135

If you are on a budget, I would post in the parts wanted section and also continue your search elsewhere.
They do show up from time to time at a reasonable price but it takes patience.

I have also been looking Stromberg BIG97 as a possible new replacement. It would require an adapter from the Stromberg 3 bolt pattern to the 235 2 bolt configuration. Are any of you running this set up? Was there an modification you had to make? It doesn't look like the choke cable and throttle rod would connect without some modification. Any other new replacement recommendations. Keep in mind I do not want to do extensive modifications. Hoping for a bolt on and go.

I am continuing my search for a Carter 2100.

There truly is pages and pages of discussions on this forum about the "best" carburetor for the standard 235 engine. For ease of installation, the Carter YF 2100S is a direct bolt-on replacement for a truck (no automatic choke). It performs as good or better than the Rochester B did back when it was newly installed by GM (1954-62). In a nutshell the Carter YF 2100S is made (engineered) for the 235. It is the least hassle so you can get on with fixing other problems on your truck.

While you are looking at the Stromberg BIG97, I would seriously learn what your engine needs? This will narrow your search field down quite a bit. Sometimes this topic breaks out into argument (I've done this carb and I've done that carb) on this forum and is probably counter-productive (no teeth in it). I think all agree that the problem with the 216 and 235 engines are that the heads do not flow well (don't breathe). They were designed on purpose for low-end torque not expressway cruisers. Our beloved 235 engines are a notch above a tractor (a Jerry-ism).

As far as the new replacements, I have no experience myself but I would avoid any of the cheap ~$200 clones made in Asia. They currently don't sell their own repair parts and if you have one to fail, it's on you to find whatever you can to fix it. Some businesses that sell carburetor parts may refuse to help you. The clone carburetors made in Argentina (Daytona UN2) have been selling and reports, on other forums, are that some are happy with them. A recent discussion here on Stovebolt concluded that the Daytona was limited (top end) on a 261 engine. Time will tell.

One more thing and sorry for preaching, but simply slapping a new gas filter in-line with your $$$ carburetor and expect 0% problems is not smart. I recommend you start with the gas tank and work your way forward to the carburetor. Replace it all or do a great and thorough job replacing/cleaning or whatever is needed. Past usage of Ethanol gasoline will cause rust in the fuel system of these old trucks regardless of the additives you put in them. They typically are not daily drivers so the alcohol in the Ethanol breaks down to a water component. I run non-Ethanol.

Buoymaker - I must mildly disagree with your selection of terms

From the dictionary: "clone" noun - an item which is identical to another, generally more expensive item.

These replacement "carburetors ? " are NOT identical to the original, therefore they cannot be classified as clones. My suggestion is to call them imitations. And while imitation might be the purest form of flattery, it does nothing for engines.

We occasionally have folks ask about these imitations. No, I have not seen them all (nor do I wish to see them all). Some of the ones I have seen have throttle bodies that are warped so badly the item will not sit on a table. It will literally roll. My answer to those that ask is that the imitations, if purchased, should be purchased by the case of 12. That way, if one can coax one through a hundred miles, a case of 12 MIGHT get one through a year.

I also like John Ruskin's comment: https://www.thecarburetorshop.com/John_Ruskin.jpg

Jon

Thanks for all the feedback. I wasn't necessary looking to start a debate about what is the best. I just need some a little guidance on if I had a choice, did one really stand out. The only reason I threw the Stromberg into the mix was I have been having a problem finding a carburetor that is ready to go that did not cost $6-700 or was not going to take 2-3 weeks to get. I found one already rebuilt and ready to bolt on for $377 including the core charge and shipping. I checked and the shop seemed to have a lot of good reviews. BFIC in California. I did talk to the carbking first but they only had cores that still need rebuilt and I wanted something ready to bolt on.

I guess that was you I talked to yesterday Jon. I love the Ruskin quote. I do try to let that philosophy drive my purchase decisions. I would rather pay up front instead of at the end.

"Best" can mean different things to different folks.

For the six cylinder Chevrolet:

To the restorer building a show vehicle, then "best" means original, and only original.

To the individual building a reliable cruiser, then "best" could mean Carter, Stromberg, Zenith single barrel carbs.

To a professional rebuilder, "best" could mean a carburetor that is easy and inexpensive to rebuild, that is reliable and increases their positive reputation.

To a hot rodder, with lots of experience with Holleys, "best" could mean a Holley single barrel.

To a vendor selling the modern imitations, "best" might be one of the imitations they sell (which is the only reason, these things enter a conversation about "best").

Depending on one's time frame, or love of rebuilding carburetors themselves, or.........................?, "best" could mean either bolt-on ready, or a core needing rebuilding.

IF there were an absolute "best", we would all be looking for white with light blue interior 1962 E-Type Jaguars (and I STILL couldn't afford one!).

There have been billions of pixels on the 'net disturbed when they could have been left sleeping arguing best, worst, first, last, biggest, smallest, fastest, attractive, etc. but in the end, "best" is what fits any individual.

Jon.

Why not try to fix that model B. If "gas is pouring out of it" you have a float/needle & seat problem, or too much fuel pressure. Make sure the float does not have gas in it. Check the alignment so its not hanging on the bowl sides. Make sure there is no dirt in the needle & seat. Check the float level.
These carbs have been out for 70 years & have run millions of miles. They are not that bad.
George

I did a complete rebuild of the carburetor before I got to this point. It was leaking when I started. That is why I did the rebuild. I thought maybe bad gaskets or something. Float is aligned and not full of gas. Possible the body is warped? I don't have enough experience to do much more with it.

Very likely the air horn and also possibly the float bowl are warped, Dave. In 2018 I posted directions on how to straighten these using a flat piece of metal, 4 screws and nuts, a feeler gauge and a gas grill. I did that with the hope "everyman" could repair his Rochester with just basic tools and materials. Warped castings can cause vacuum leaks, fuel leaks, etc and are pretty much a guarantee with these carburetors. Here is a link to the work I did:

https://www.stovebolt.com/ubbthread...ing-the-rochester-b-and-bc-castings.html

As to the question which is better, Rochester or Carter, if a single barrel carburetor is what you need, the Carter is a better designed carburetor in a few very important ways. The 2101S and 2100S have become more difficult to find, but those are not the only alternatives. Some people seem to be taking advantage of a scarcity to charge some very high prices. As for alternatives, I have 2 YF4145S models I have rebuilt (those were made for the 194 and 230 six) which have manual choke and seem to be okay for the 235. At idle the one I tried seemed to run a bit rich, however it could have been that I had it adjusted incorrectly. I mainly wanted to see if it would work. I'll see if I can bring them back to the top of the "for sale" section. Good luck.

Thanks Jon, I needed a quick turn around on a working carb and did not have time to attempt your procedure. I will however sometime in the near future attempt to bring my carb back to life using your procedure.

Dave, arguing is what some of us, including myself, think we are good at.
We do it for fun. Some of the guys/gals are downright funny.

Overly expensive, I would try negotiation, but it's available now but it needs to be rebuilt:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/324803273984

These carburetors can be 60 to 70 years old and may have physical wear issues, if you know where to look.
Except for basic repair kits, new replacement parts do not exist so you need a collection of good used parts.
The repair instructions included in a new gasket kit is usually generic. They often have errors.
This is when you refer back to the out-of-print original Carter/Rochester speciation sheets created for each model, if you know where to find one.
Labor is expensive anywhere in the USA so a professionally rebuilt carburetor reflects the cost.