The Stovebolt Site Forums The Parking Lot Early 'Bolts (1916-1936 1st Half) 1933 GMC T-23C Dump Truck

Hi folks, I’m Matt, and welcome to my father, brothers and my project, a 33' 3 ton GMC dump truck a 221 "GMC" engine and a gar wood hydraulic dump system. My father bought this years ago when he was 16 and it was together and running ( something like 1970 ), started to work on it and then got busy with life and kids and this got left in bits and pieces since then. Now he wants it back together so he can drive it before he gets too old. So here we are working on it. My father would be OK with us just putting it back together and getting it running without fixing or cleaning much, so this restoration may be quite rough around the edges in some places but there is plenty to clean and fix or else it wont go back.

The truck is in about 500 pieces right now, ripe for cleaning and putting back together. My dad bought this running in the late 60s or early 70s here in southern California from a junkyard and promptly tore it to pieces planning to restore it. Then he had my brothers and I, and well now here we are helping him put it back together after so many years.

We plan getting it back together and running so he can drive it, its not going to be show car by any means but assembled, painted and driving is our goal right now.

At some point soon I will get the other pictures I have of the truck while it was together in a gallery to look at along with some other documentation about the cab and chassis that GM sent my father in the 70s when he wrote to them for info, I haven't found a ton of info on this truck so I am some one else might find it useful.

A few pics from when my dad bought the truck when it was together, and a few as things are now in our garage here.

Some of these posts might be a bit long winded - I have not been able to find a whole lot of info on these trucks so I will try and detail things a bit more, maybe some one else will find it useful and this way I can come back and read what I did when I mess something up. Don't hesitate to ask if you have any questions or tell me when I am wrong about something

This truck is pretty big and once we get any parts back on the frame its going to get crowded so we thought the first thing we should work on are the axles to get it into a safely movable state, with brakes and steering wheel so we can get it out of the garage. Plans have changed since then a bit but axles are still first to get worked on.

So we started on the rear axle.

I don't know much about axle itself, it has a round 10 bolt rear cover with "GMC" stamped on it , the front plate ( facing the engine) has "Timken" cast on it with the numbers 5209 , might be S209, then A-183 or A-123 they are kind of hard to read. I have not been able to find a similar axle or much info on it outside the chassis maintenance manual we acquired from GM about this truck. This rear axle has the parking brake linkage attached to it between the front housing where it meets the drive shaft and the backing plate of the brake, it has a rod the linkage connects to with a threaded brake adjustment connection, one for each side.

We dropped the differential cover to find a layer of dried out oil on things, no surprise there, least it kept it from rusting. The differential seemed to be in decent condition at least, no obvious problems. tooth wear good and bearings seemed good , we cleaned it out and buttoned it back up.

Next were the drums and brakes. Both brakes seemed locked up but on closer inspection and to my surprise they were both in decent shape already. My father did not remember working on them when he first bought it, he guessed that either the previous owner or my grandfather, who was helping him at the time, must have cleaned and rebuilt them. New bearings on one or both sides, they were all in great condition if they were not new. Leather seals on the back of the rear bearing also seemed in decent to good shape, all the brake components were painted with what looked like red primer, although I know it will burn off when used but we accepted it for now and moved on. I lubed up the moving parts in the brakes with some high heat silicon grease. the pads were like new on passenger side ( same side with new bearings ) and a little worn but in spec with the manual on the drivers side. These brakes have 4 pads to them which is some thing i have not seen before, 2 for the pedal brake facing the rear and 2 for the parking brake facing the front.

The axles were removed and cleaned like everything else, however the axles are not the same on either side. Same length and size since they both fit however the bolt patterns are slightly different, one side uses a bolt and conical split washer on all the bolts that connect it to the hub, the other axle only has conical holes for 4 of the 6 bolts that attach it to the hub, so interesting difference there. Also to note the axles both had GMC TRUCK CO and LOS ANGELES CA stenciled on it in white, if not important I found it interesting at least.

With everything cleaned and lubed and greased I put the drums back on. These drums appeared to have been 2 pieces , the lug studs going through the drum to the hub and keeping it all together. The studs were welded to the threads in the drum/hub assembly, unsure if it came like that but that's what I have. The axle or hub locknut was screwed on until the drum bound and then loosened about 1/4 turn , per the manual. The lock nut is a split nut with 2 bolts to cinch the nut together locking it in. There was no seal between the axle tube and the bearing that I could find or the book showed but it seems to be a common seal on other floating axle trucks, we are likely missing them.

The old axle to hub bolts were not good, as a few broke when removing and a few were in bad shape , we replaced them but could not find the original style high head and high nuts that were used for this hub setup, we used a set of grade 8s in place of them and had to grind one side of the nut for it to fit into the hub casting, for now they will work but stand out like a sore thumb. I am trying to figure out what type of plating or finish bolts were likely to come in back then, I suppose black oxide or a zinc plate were possible but unsure as every bolt we have for this thing are rusted, it seems a lot of them will need replacing except maybe the larger bolts.

That is all for now, as soon as we get the blasting cabinet I will start work on putting the front end together. My father is working on fitting some pieces on the truck that he does not remember where they go so we have an idea of what we have or don't have.

Ive included some photos of the passenger side brake and how I found it after I don't know how many years of that hub being on it, I was surprised when I saw paint and not rust that's for sure.

- Matt

Anyone work for the railway in the family the paint also looks like boxcar paint ,my uncle used some on his truck years ago it looked durable .

Hi,

As for the railroad , no one in my family worked at any railroad that I know of, but maybe that's a clue as to some history. My dad bought this at a auto wrecking yard, but has no history for it before that. The auto yard was using it to haul dirt and mud out of their yard. I looked to see if the yard was still around but looks like its long gone unfortunately.

I reached out to the GMC heritage center and got in contact with some one who said they needed to get into the hard copies to do research on this, I have not yet heard back but maybe that will bring something to light.

I have been fooling around with several '30's GMC trucks. Generally speaking GMC used Oldsmobile and/or Pontiac flat-head 6 cylinder engines prior to '39, when they came out with their own line of OHV 6 cyln engines.
I have a complete '37 Olds 230 cid engine that was a running engine when I pulled it out of a '37 T14 over ten years ago. Wm.

Hello Matt,

What a great and interesting project. I don't have any experience with anything quite that old, but I'm anxious to follow along and monitor your progress.

BTW: Are the pictures in your original post pictures of your actual truck? If so, it would be cool to have you post it in our Gallery. We can always update your submission once you get it mostly done.

John

Excellent information, thank you. The data plate on the engine says its 3-3/16 bore and 4-5/8 stroke and under 'type' it just says '221' luckily its still very readable and on the lower block, and of course its marked General Motors Truck Corp. The engine that we have is an OHV and not a flathead. The manual we have from GMC about this truck does talk about this 221 engine however, so I am at least pretty sure its the original engine. If its really an Olds or a Pontiac in disguise I would not be surprised. Ill have to look in that direction for more information, soon Ill need to find a remedy to the rod bearings which are damaged pour in place babbitt bearings, but the mains are steel backed. Im sure finding these parts will be an adventure in itself.

Thanks again for the info,

Matt

Hi John,

The pictures in the post are of the actual truck we are working on and we have many more. My grandpa had the insight of telling my father to take pictures of it all before my father took it apart. Those pictures are from the 70s sometime. The other 2 photos are of the truck as is now, in about 1000 pieces. The old pictures have helped us figure out what some of these pieces even are and where they go of course , Ill try and get them online somewhere I am sure they might be of use to others to in figuring out these puzzles.

Matt

Some work we did this last week was mocking up the sill plates for the cab. The cab is a wood and sheet metal construction but it all sits on 2 sill plates which get attached to the frame through some spring mounts front and rear. We still have the old and I assume original sill plates however they are in a very rotted condition but they have some clues as to where and what they were bolted to and holes in them are worn but obvious enough we can use for templates. We decided before cutting and fitting any hardwood that we should try and mock up the sill plates using some basic 2x6 to see if we have a good idea of where and how things sit on the frame and if we can do it accurately. The front part of the cab is still in one piece, its essentially the fire wall, the dash board, the outside sheet metal that connect the two and some wood giving it structure, and its part of where the cab mounts to the sill plates. After using those as guides, we drilled, cut and bolted things together and realized they were not quite in the right spot.

To get a more accurate position we decided that attaching the rear spring mount and build the gas tank enclosure/seat. These were mocked together using some scrap wood but its together and sitting in what we believe is the right spot giving us another reference point for the sill plate. We have not re made or re worked the sill plates yet, that will be soon. We know the cab is likely the hardest thing to put back together so our goal is to try and get the sill plates as correct as possible as it will be the foundation to which the other wood and sheet metal is attached. The cab is also taller then our garage door when the truck is on its wheels , so either we will need to move the truck or build the cab elsewhere before we get crazy with it and start building it upwards. The wood the cab is made from we think is ash , not sure, but my dad wants to use some sort of light colored oak

Pictures attached are of the gas tank box that we have put back together, the 2x6 mock sill plate we were using for fitting, and the dash/firewall part of the cab. You can also see the block of the engine in the back ground, just waiting for some tlc.

Well it has been some time since I have posted, but with our blasting cabinet up and running now and a few small other projects taken care of, we have resumed work on the front suspension of the truck. So far its just been blasting and painting. Soon as we get both springs done , the axle can go on, and the I will start work on the brake hubs and assemblies. We have already got the axle and axle to spring hardware ready to go, and as of this posting we have both spindles ready to go on and one spring is ready, all that is left is the drivers side spring and the axle will get mounted.

This week I disassembled the front passenger leaf spring, blasted it all and painted it along with both spindles. The spring was in good shape, no cracks that I could find after cleaning it. The spring it held together with 4 clamps, and 1 center bolt. The center bolt is pretty mangled, however given its head fits into the block it sits on and locates it, I don't think the bolt holds much weight, and will reuse the bolt unless I find a reason to replace it. The spring clamps are divided into 2 sets, ones that are riveted to a spring leaf at the bottom and hold them all together, and ones that are towards the ends that are held together by small leaf springs that face the opposite direction of the rest of the spring pack, putting pressure on the clamp. The eye of the spring where it mounts to the non-shackle side of the frame , the brass bronze bushing inside the eye is unevenly worn, or it took shape of the oblong hole it was pressed into, but not worn through. We wont replace that for now either.

The spindles seem to be in good shape except for the thrust ball bearings that go with it. One was ok, but the other was trashed. On the good side at some point my father bought a set of king pins, bushings for the kingpins, and a set of those thrust washers. Im not sure if any of this is new, some if it is obviously used, but its all in good condition. After spending some time with a set of calipers and all the bushings and king pins it seems like I do not need to press the new set of bushings in, the old bushings showed minimal wear and felt fine, maybe just a slight polish with some scotchbrite and we should be good to go.

The photos are of pre and post cleaning and painting of the spindles and springs, and some stamped on numbers on the leaf springs that I found.

A few more weeks and some decent work done, I got the front suspension and axle mounted back onto the truck , one good step close to being a rolling chassis.

I ended up blasting both springs, all spring and related hardware and then the spindles and painted them all gloss black before putting them back on. I'm not so sure that was a great idea for the springs as while I was putting the leaf springs back together they took a bit of a beating and chipped the paint in places.

To start putting it together the springs went on first, the front spring mount is riveted to almost the very front of the frame rail, and through it goes a hollow bolt with a grease fitting that fits through a bronze bushing, capped by a castle nut. The rear mounts are shackles, with the shackle plates mating to conical surfaces on each side of the spring, and to a similar part on the frame giving the spring some movement. The surfaces were rough so we polished them up a bit after cleaning and painted. The leaf springs were different from each other, same length but 1 more leaf on one side then the other, not sure how that will change the suspension but for now we didn't worry about it.

Next was the axle, the axle sits below the springs with a bow-tie shaped block between the springs and the axle, and 2 u bolts for each side. Next the spindles which , when we had the right parts on the right side were easy to put together, but we at some point got the pins or spindles swapped, and apparently the pins were different enough in size to not fit in both spindles. After we found this out we installed them and then tested the end play as the maintenance book has a specification for spindle end play , .003 to .006 , and lucky for us they met specs. We installed the shims we took out originally and it seem to work out, so we did not need to take it back apart to adjust the fitting. The spindles need some metal caps on either side of the king pin for dust protection according to the manual but we did not have those, so another part to buy should be fine, something like a freeze plug.

The photos are of post install As you can see some of the many places I ate the paint off the surfaces. And one of the springs I left the old bolts alone as I will likely replace them and it did not seem to matter if the spring was on or off the truck so back together it went. The scrapes will get a touch up and we will move on to the back plates , brakes and hubs so we can get this thing on the ground.

It's pretty amazing how little the design of the suspension change over the years, this is basically the same as my 59". Some nice work.

That is very true, and for all intents and purposes, it was that same way on the school busses I worked on from the late 70's. A good design does not have to change if it works.

Steve

Just wanted to give notice here that Matt has included a manual in his signature line. I guess it may be helpful for you guys in this group.

General Motors Instructions for Care and Maintenance of Model T-23 Truck Chassis. It's 56 pages.

I just have a screen shot here from the cover page.

Looks exactly like the front suspension in my '65 C60, except the kingpin bushing covers bolt on to mine versus the soft plugs.