The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop Starter Issues

I recently posted on a throttle cable issue, but have another question regarding the starter on my 53 3100. The engine is a 57 235, and was converted to a 12V system. When I push my foot starter it usually winds (without turning the engine) 3 or 4 times...then it will starts up fine. On occasion, it will wind (without turning the engine) 8-10 times- before starting. Other times, it will start on the first push. I just purchased a new battery. I believe I might be in need of a starter or a re-build, but don't want to buy one prematurely. Can anyone offer advice...or similar issues?

I have a Delco Remy starter on the truck and have attached some photos.

I am a new Stovebolter, and appreciate all the help! Thanks

I’m not following what you mean by winds (without turning the engine)

The way the starter system works is when you push the foot starter, it not only closes the contacts on the starter switch but also engages the starter gear into the flywheel gear.

Starter runs without the starter drive engaging. Linkage needs adjusting.

Change the starter drive- - - - -not the starter. There is a one-way clutch in the drive that slips when the engine starts to keep the armature from overspeeding before the driver can release the pedal. The clutch is worn and is slipping both ways some of the time. It was a very common failure that every mechanic worthy of the name was familiar with back when these trucks were working for a living, not pampered toys.
Jerry

Thanks for the information. When I said “winds”, I meant “whines”....sorry about that! In any case, I mean that the starter spins several times without engaging....before eventually firing the engine.

I’m a bit of a novice....especially with electrical issues. An recommendations on where to get delco remy starter parts? Or a manual on how to rebuild or to reference for repair?

And per my research on the starter, it’s a 63 delco remy model

Changing a starter drive is a fairly straight forward project. A new starter drive can be had at most any parts store.

Hy Dodgebum, your starter is a six volt one, application 1938 to 54 GMC and Chevrolet pickup. The armature on six volt starters is larger in diameter than twelve volt starters, so you will need a starter drive for a six volt starter. Another point, you said you now have a 1957 engine, do you know which flywheel was used on that engine? Six volt flywheels have 139 teeth twelve volt flywheels have more, the number escapes my memory at the moment. In short six volt starter drives are compatible with six volt flywheels and twelve volt starters are compatible with twelve volt flywheels. Before you attempt any repairs count your number of flywheel teeth and report back here.

55-up 12 volt flywheels have 168 teeth. A 6V starter armature has approximately a 5/8" diameter shaft and straight drive lugs that engage with the drive unit. 12V armature shafts are approximately 1/2" in diameter, and the drive lugs on the shaft and in the inside of the drive are spiral which makes the drive unit turn a little as it engages the flywheel teeth. This minimizes the tendency of the teeth to jam together instead of meshing.
Jerry

Dodgebum, the folks posting above said all that really needs to be said. A couple videos that may help. Here and here.

Good Luck,

RonR

Just to complete the record, the outside diameter of the 6Vand 12V flywheels are different so you can't swap ring gears to match the starter drive, you have to swap flywheels.

FWIW 6V starters do just fine on 12V. They spin a lot faster on 12V so the back-EMF from the armature limits the current, i.e. they don't draw twice the current. That said, it's probably not a good idea to run the starter on 12V with a low battery hoping it'll start, in which case they will draw way more current.

Wow! What a group of replies...thanks.

I am honestly not sure if my truck has the original 53 flywheel or newer style 57 flywheel. I am afraid I might be running the larger flywheel with a 6 v starter... which would amount for the grinding teeth occasionally. Few questions:

What’s the easiest way to verify what flywheel I have (without removing it)?

I know that I have a 12 volt wiring system...assuming I have the 57 flywheel, can I just install and run a 12 v starter?

Prior to the current problem has the Engine always started?

It always starts eventually. But usually struggles to turn over and will grind randomly as well. Would the engine start if I truly am running a 6 v starter with the 57 flywheel?

Yes, the engine will start, but the teeth will be noisy because of the mismatch of the pitch of the teeth between the starter pinion gear and the flywheel. The most reliable way to determine which flywheel you have is to count the teeth- - - -drop the dust cover off the bottom of the bellhousing, mark one tooth with a felt tip, and start counting as you turn the engine with a pry bar. I usually mark every 10th. tooth in case I lose count along the way! If the starter still has the oval Delco ID tag on it, 6V tags are painted black- - - -12V ones are red. Since inline six engines have a tendency to coast to a stop in one of three positions as a cylinder comes up on compression, it's not unusual to find the flywheel teeth worn in three places due to the starter drive repeatedly engaging those areas. A good welding shop can flip a ring gear over on the flywheel by tapping the ring gear off, heating it to expand it, and reinstalling it on the flywheel with the unworn edge facing toward the starter.

If you've got a 12V flywheel, just install the 12V starter and drive on. There's no difference in the outside diameter of the different ring gears, just a slightly different angle to the pitch of the teeth between the 6V and 12V gears.
Jerry

Thanks again Jerry, I have a 1955 235 ready to go together. I'm putting it in a 54 with six volt starter. Ed